Questions you've always wanted answered

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Marc Meakin
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Re: Questions you've always wanted answered

Post by Marc Meakin » Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:06 pm

Elliott Mellor wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 6:15 pm
Haha, promise I wasn't too drunk!

Edited.
I should edit mine as it's probably homophobic 😀
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Re: Questions you've always wanted answered

Post by Phil Reynolds » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:42 am

My lack of interest in sports such as football and rugby is nothing new, and results in a serious weak spot in my quizzing ability since I just can't retain facts and figures about a subject I find so mind-numbingly dull. Part of this is that the meaning of common sporting terms that most people seem to take for granted eludes me. When I ask people to explain these terms they invariably miss the point and give a long technical explanation that assumes, wrongly, that I already understand the basic principle that I was trying to clarify.

So, here's the one that eludes and frustrates me most often. When newsreaders say that a sportsperson "has x caps" what does that mean? I think (although I'm not confident) it's something to do with being captain of a team, but (please don't laugh) is the "cap" an actual physical piece of headgear or does it just refer to the status? And if a player is captain of a side for a certain period, e.g. a season, does that count as one cap or is it a per-game thing?

Feel free to scoff, hurl abuse etc. at my ignorance but if someone could actually answer the question I'd be grateful.

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Re: Questions you've always wanted answered

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:59 am

I always used to wonder about this as well. I think it's just the number of games that you've played for your national team, so you don't need to be captain. Whether or not there is an actual physical cap I have no idea.

Newsreaders assuming knowledge of this sort of stuff is annoying.

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Re: Questions you've always wanted answered

Post by Thomas Cappleman » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:10 am

The intro to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cap_(sport) describes it well.

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Re: Questions you've always wanted answered

Post by Phil Reynolds » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:11 am

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:59 am
Newsreaders assuming knowledge of this sort of stuff is annoying.
Also quizmasters. On Pointless Richard Osman says things like "teams in the 2018-19 Champions League" and I have no idea what that means. I know the names of some football teams, so I could have a wild guess, but I have no idea whether I'm meant to be guessing local or national teams or whether they have to be British, European or whatever.

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Re: Questions you've always wanted answered

Post by Phil Reynolds » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:15 am

Thomas Cappleman wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:10 am
The intro to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cap_(sport) describes it well.
True (thanks) although it gets confusing again as it starts off by saying it's a metaphorical thing, then later it says that association football teams still award a physical cap. If so, and players are given one every time they play at international level, some of them must have hundreds. Where on earth do they keep them all?

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Re: Questions you've always wanted answered

Post by Thomas Cappleman » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:21 am

Phil Reynolds wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:15 am
Thomas Cappleman wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:10 am
The intro to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cap_(sport) describes it well.
True (thanks) although it gets confusing again as it starts off by saying it's a metaphorical thing, then later it says that association football teams still award a physical cap. If so, and players are given one every time they play at international level, some of them must have hundreds. Where on earth do they keep them all?
Yeah, seems that any time people talk about number of caps they'll be talking about the metaphorical number (i.e. how many times they've played). The player may also have a number of physical caps, which for footballers will awkwardly not be the same - only 1 per tournament. And whether the generalization is true for every country in every sport, who knows.

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Re: Questions you've always wanted answered

Post by Thomas Cappleman » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:22 am

Looks like Beckham really kept his: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/a ... -caps.html

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Re: Questions you've always wanted answered

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:31 am

So if Beckham does really have 115 caps, it must be one physical cap per game, not per tournament.

Edit - just read the Wikipedia bit. The Daily Mail is probably wrong about the number he has.

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Re: Questions you've always wanted answered

Post by Marc Meakin » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:45 pm

I remember when Bobby Moore got a hundred caps I remember a photo with him and the caps in the background.
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Re: Questions you've always wanted answered

Post by Marc Meakin » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:47 pm

On a similar sporting theme .
When medals are calculated for each country why isn't the physical amount of medals added up.
For example in rowing , whoever wins the coxless eights would be awarded 8 physical medals but only one is added to the nation's talky
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Re: Questions you've always wanted answered

Post by Ian Volante » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:59 pm

Marc Meakin wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:47 pm
On a similar sporting theme .
When medals are calculated for each country why isn't the physical amount of medals added up.
For example in rowing , whoever wins the coxless eights would be awarded 8 physical medals but only one is added to the nation's talky
That would unfairly bias the overall medals total to whichever nations did better in team sports. Win the a football event, and you'd be pretty much a shoo-in for the top six medals table immediately.
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Re: Questions you've always wanted answered

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:55 pm

Ian Volante wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:59 pm
Marc Meakin wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:47 pm
On a similar sporting theme .
When medals are calculated for each country why isn't the physical amount of medals added up.
For example in rowing , whoever wins the coxless eights would be awarded 8 physical medals but only one is added to the nation's talky
That would unfairly bias the overall medals total to whichever nations did better in team sports. Win the a football event, and you'd be pretty much a shoo-in for the top six medals table immediately.
If anything, the change should be that they have to share one medal between them.

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Re: Questions you've always wanted answered

Post by David Williams » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:44 pm

Phil Reynolds wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:11 am
Gavin Chipper wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:59 am
Newsreaders assuming knowledge of this sort of stuff is annoying.
Also quizmasters. On Pointless Richard Osman says things like "teams in the 2018-19 Champions League" and I have no idea what that means. I know the names of some football teams, so I could have a wild guess, but I have no idea whether I'm meant to be guessing local or national teams or whether they have to be British, European or whatever.
"And now, tonight's Champions League results. The Champions League is an annual football tournament contested by the leading clubs in Europe. Football, or association football, is a game played between two teams of eleven . . . "

Unfortunately there won't be time for any of this, because the bulletin started with
"Firstly, the latest news on Brexit. Brexit is the abbreviation commonly applied to describe the process by which the United Kingdom will leave the European Union. The European Union is . . ."

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Re: Questions you've always wanted answered

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:45 pm

David Williams wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:44 pm
Phil Reynolds wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:11 am
Gavin Chipper wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:59 am
Newsreaders assuming knowledge of this sort of stuff is annoying.
Also quizmasters. On Pointless Richard Osman says things like "teams in the 2018-19 Champions League" and I have no idea what that means. I know the names of some football teams, so I could have a wild guess, but I have no idea whether I'm meant to be guessing local or national teams or whether they have to be British, European or whatever.
"And now, tonight's Champions League results. The Champions League is an annual football tournament contested by the leading clubs in Europe. Football, or association football, is a game played between two teams of eleven . . . "

Unfortunately there won't be time for any of this, because the bulletin started with
"Firstly, the latest news on Brexit. Brexit is the abbreviation commonly applied to describe the process by which the United Kingdom will leave the European Union. The European Union is . . ."
Some things are more intuitive or more reasonably considered common knowledge than others. Caps? I'm not sure.

Do you remember when they suddenly started talking about diplomatic cables, a term nobody uses ever, without any introduction or explanation? No-one knows what a sapper is or an AM. The "deficit" came out of nowhere after we first had the "credit crunch" in around 2008. Abolishing the 10p tax rate sounds like people would pay less tax doesn't it?

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Re: Questions you've always wanted answered

Post by Phil Reynolds » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:30 pm

David Williams wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:44 pm
Phil Reynolds wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:11 am
On Pointless Richard Osman says things like "teams in the 2018-19 Champions League" and I have no idea what that means. I know the names of some football teams, so I could have a wild guess, but I have no idea whether I'm meant to be guessing local or national teams or whether they have to be British, European or whatever.
"And now, tonight's Champions League results. The Champions League is an annual football tournament contested by the leading clubs in Europe. Football, or association football, is a game played between two teams of eleven . . . "
Don't be silly. It's safe to assume that anyone interested in hearing the results on the news will know what the Champions League is. Totally different situation to a quiz where it's reasonable and fair to clarify what's being asked for (e.g. "any European club side* competing in the 2018-19 Champions League"). Richard already does this with most questions; the fact that he doesn't when it's a football-related question is a symptom of the arrogant but common assumption among football fans that everyone else is interested in it too.

* Just Googled it for the sake of this example so at least I've learnt something new about football, although I doubt I'll be able to remember it next time it comes up in a quiz.

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Re: Questions you've always wanted answered

Post by Marc Meakin » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:24 am

Phil Reynolds wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:30 pm
David Williams wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:44 pm
Phil Reynolds wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:11 am
On Pointless Richard Osman says things like "teams in the 2018-19 Champions League" and I have no idea what that means. I know the names of some football teams, so I could have a wild guess, but I have no idea whether I'm meant to be guessing local or national teams or whether they have to be British, European or whatever.
"And now, tonight's Champions League results. The Champions League is an annual football tournament contested by the leading clubs in Europe. Football, or association football, is a game played between two teams of eleven . . . "
Don't be silly. It's safe to assume that anyone interested in hearing the results on the news will know what the Champions League is. Totally different situation to a quiz where it's reasonable and fair to clarify what's being asked for (e.g. "any European club side* competing in the 2018-19 Champions League"). Richard already does this with most questions; the fact that he doesn't when it's a football-related question is a symptom of the arrogant but common assumption among football fans that everyone else is interested in it too.

* Just Googled it for the sake of this example so at least I've learnt something new about football, although I doubt I'll be able to remember it next time it comes up in a quiz.
Football is still our national sport so I don't think it's arrogance at all.
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Re: Questions you've always wanted answered

Post by Phil Reynolds » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:34 pm

Marc Meakin wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:24 am
Football is still our national sport so I don't think it's arrogance at all.
It's the UK's most popular sport. (The national sport is cricket, apparently.) But so what? That's like saying that Coronation Street is the most popular TV soap, so everyone is expected to know all about it.

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Re: Questions you've always wanted answered

Post by Paul Worsley » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:58 pm

I have a friend who appeared on Pointless, and apparently it's ok to ask for clarification. So if a Champions League question came up it would be ok to ask "Is that a European competition?"

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Re: Questions you've always wanted answered

Post by David Williams » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:22 pm

Phil Reynolds wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:34 pm
But so what? That's like saying that Coronation Street is the most popular TV soap, so everyone is expected to know all about it.
So, if you expect some clarification as to what the Champions League is, you would also expect some clarification about Coronation Street? I thought the general idea was to reward people who knew stuff, not to allow people who know very little to make less ridiculous guesses.

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Re: Questions you've always wanted answered

Post by Conor » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:37 pm

Phil Reynolds wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:11 am
Also quizmasters. On Pointless Richard Osman says things like "teams in the 2018-19 Champions League" and I have no idea what that means. I know the names of some football teams, so I could have a wild guess, but I have no idea whether I'm meant to be guessing local or national teams or whether they have to be British, European or whatever.
Yeah, it is pretty annoying that not knowing things can disadvantage you in a quiz.

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Re: Questions you've always wanted answered

Post by Phil Reynolds » Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:43 pm

Conor wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:37 pm
Phil Reynolds wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:11 am
Also quizmasters. On Pointless Richard Osman says things like "teams in the 2018-19 Champions League" and I have no idea what that means. I know the names of some football teams, so I could have a wild guess, but I have no idea whether I'm meant to be guessing local or national teams or whether they have to be British, European or whatever.
Yeah, it is pretty annoying that not knowing things can disadvantage you in a quiz.
Haha. I'm tempted to argue that your point is a specious one, since in most other cases Richard gives lots of supplementary information to clarify what the bounds of the subject are. But I'm willing to concede that the roots of my gripe lie with my unreasonable loathing of football and hence disinterest in retaining any facts about it.

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Re: Questions you've always wanted answered

Post by sean d » Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:34 pm

In fairness if you don't know the scope of the Champions League (i.e. Europe-wide, top teams) then that level of clarification isn't going to make you competitive in a quiz or on Pointless. It seem unlikely to me that you're going to think "I'm lokoing for an obscure 2018-19 Champions League teams.....I now know that it's not just Bitish so I won't go with Accrington Stanley, rather I'll go for Romanian champions Cluj or Belgian runners-up RKC Genk)

Likewise if you don't know that the "Cabinet" is made up of the government's ministers that calrification isn't going to help you dredge up the Minster for Wales

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