c4countdown

If it truly was a deliberate decision to act this way as you're suggesting Jack, then that kind of invalidates my and other people's defence of you. I take exception to the idea that somehow you were compensating for a lack of personality by the other contestants (whose conduct, from what I saw, was uniformly excellent), and the suggestion that others were taking the tournament "too seriously" - at the time you were taking it noticeably more seriously than anyone else (unless this was all another hilarious roleplay).

Yes you got a bit carried away in the excitement of being on TV and did a couple of mildly regrettable things in the heat of the moment, and some viewers who don't know you responded badly. That happens to most people on TV. You know it's all a silly uproar and doesn't matter for anything, so just brush it off and move on, rather than trying to drag others through the mud with you.

JackHurst wrote:Oh and by the way, I always remember Idolising Kirk when he was on, and distinctly remembering him saying what he wanted the last pick to be out loud. I can't recall there being such a fuss back then, so I thought it wouldnt be so bad now.

I don't remember this! I've always enjoyed goatdown but I don't remember saying Countdown should *be* Goatdown. For what it's worth I chuckled at the "hope it's an A" comment. I wouldn't have done this myself (I fished for an L for CULTIGEN - spoilers! - but didn't say "hope it's an L") but we're all different and it's good to have different characters in the game.

Please let's not lose sight of what this championship is really about (which, in case you are in any doubt, is knitwear)

JackHurst wrote:So guys, there's a lot of things been said, and I want to respond to as many of them as I can, but that would mean I'd have to sit here for hours typing up my lengthy response. I'll try and keep it short(ish):

[not at all short(ish) response]

I'm with Heather above – you haven't answered the all important question of where you (or rather your brother) bought that smashing jumper!

For what it's worth (which isn't a lot, I'll grant you) I actually sympathise with Jack – admittedly I missed the “I hope it's an A” moment, but anyway. I recorded a new quiz show last year and in the green room beforehand there was a tremendous amount of larking about and banter, but carrying that through to the studio was hit-and-miss. There is at least one ‘joke’ I know I'll be watching from between my fingers whilst pondering how much of a cock I look. A lot of that is imparted by the pressure of the studio and we all react differently.

But as Damien said, nobody's dead. Just remember, Jack: it's only a TV programme!

Having just caught up with this show on-demand, I think there has been a bit of an overreaction to Jack's cockiness on here. I thoroughly enjoyed the game and he made some fantastic spots - I don't think I would have got any of the nines, SERIATION was a possibility for me but would have had to declare it not written down and may have been slightly out of time.

Wayne played well too and was unlucky to come up against an excellent player. Well done to both players and good luck to Jack in the remainder of the tournament.

At least I'm trying to give a bit of personality

You didn't like it when I did it!

If it wasn't for Adam's comments, I think I'd have kept my cool in this thread, but the guy just infuriates me so much I wanted to unleash some venom. I'm not saying that excuses my second post, just telling you how my mind works. It's pathetic I know.

I'm going to leave it there now. It's only going to make things worse If I carry on.

Lets look forward to MARK V CONOR, two of my countdown idols who it was an honour to share a green room with twice.

I think we can all agree that what this thread really shows is that what countdown really needs is an "after-show" programme where issues like this can be discussed and debated much in same vein as "The Xtra Factor", and "Take me out: the gossip". I propose that the new show's presenters be myself and Jennifer Steadman. Statistics can be provided by Graham Cole. Think of all the drama and backstage gossip that 99% of countdown viewers never even get to hear about. It's a ratings winner I tell you!

Graeme Cole wrote:

John Garcia wrote:Wowsers!

p.s. Does anyone have any stats for how often a countdown game occurs with a max score as high as this one? What proportion of games are we talking? 1%?

Go go gadget graph!

Correct. Just over 1% of 15 round games have a max of 152 or more.

Wowsers! Brilliant graph - thanks for that Graeme. Just shows how rare those shows are - we can only expect about 2-3 a year.

Innis Carson wrote:If it truly was a deliberate decision to act this way as you're suggesting Jack, then that kind of invalidates my and other people's defence of you. I take exception to the idea that somehow you were compensating for a lack of personality by the other contestants (whose conduct, from what I saw, was uniformly excellent), and the suggestion that others were taking the tournament "too seriously" - at the time you were taking it noticeably more seriously than anyone else (unless this was all another hilarious roleplay).

I'm not sure if it was really meant like that. It's deliberate that he generally acts up a bit with this cocky personality, and that just happened to spill over into saying out loud that that he wanted an A. I don't think he set out to take it too far.

Also I don't think he said he was trying to make up for any "lack of personality", more that this is how he behaves anyway on screen, and that as some viewers might be complaining about the demographic, it's not necessarily all bad that he does.

By the way, I'd be very surprised if many "casual viewers" gave it a second thought. And as we all know, bringing up the casual viewers can win any argument.

John Garcia wrote:Statistics can be provided by Graham Cole.

I suppose he's got to have something to do since The Bill finished.

Graeme Cole wrote:

John Garcia wrote:Statistics can be provided by Graham Cole.

I suppose he's got to have something to do since The Bill finished.

OOpps

Only just caught up with this.

Brilliant performance Jack, and obviously have to feel sorry for Wayne, who had he arrived on this scene 20 years later would undoubtedly be rivalling you and others of the current generation. As would Harvey Freeman, Andrew Perry, Alan Saldanha etc etc

Yes "hope it's an A" would have been better unsaid, but we all think out loud sometimes when we shouldn't, especially under pressure. I just wish I was talented enough to find out if I would say that in the same situation.

But Rachel shouldn't have made her comment either and Nick certainly shouldn't have introduced the topic of the highest ever score long before the end. If only you had all kept quiet we could have had an ordinary boring sort of game....



PS Heard Pete Cashmore on the radio last week, series champ turned journalist who I think played three epic games against Natasha someone. Shame they weren't back for this.

Jon Corby wrote:

David O'Donnell wrote:Hasn't this been explained as a young man's exuberance? Also, whilst I love you, aren't you the worst person ever on Apterous for being a bad winner? Additionally, you aren't a young man and really don't have an excuse for doing online what Jack did on the telly; additionally, you weren't asked to go on the telly so maybe you have a gripe?

I'm getting the impression that you kinda wanted me to lay off Jack (even though I've barely said anything) so asking me lots of retarded questions is an odd way to go about that. I probably wasn't going to add anything further.

I'm not totally down with the "young exuberance" excuse. We've had (far) younger contestants who have won by large margins and still managed to behave correctly. He's 20 FFS. Plus he's also just explained above that he does it on purpose (and with a little forethought), because he thinks a lot of the other contestants are boring and show no personality or emotion. So that's nice.
And it's not at all comparable to what we might do online, which is comedy sledging in private (from both sides, as at absolute best I'll win as many as I lose against you). As he mentioned above, I played several games against Jono last night where we both took the piss out of each other (and ourselves) constantly, it's funny. It's banter between good mates. I certainly don't do it to just anybody. I challenge you to find anybody who genuinely thinks I'm a bad winner (or loser) on apterous. Or real life, for that matter.

As for having a gripe about "not being asked to go back on TV", why would you think that? I've posted on many games in this tournament purely to congratulate the players on both their skill and comportment. Feel free to use anything I've said (even in private, if you like) to justify that accusation.

There was a slight bit of sledging in my post but fair play for appropriating it at face value. Nice argument, virtually flawless. To be honest, I don't really care about this debate; I'm more worried about how hanging I'm going to be at work tomorrow.

And don't forget that "I hope it's an A" was in direct reply to Rachel aslkng what he wanted

Thanks to Jennifer for linking to this thread earlier on in Aptochat.

People actually criticized Jack for the goatdown moment? I thought that was great! Of course you have to be sensitive to other people's feelings... that's obvious. But not to the extent that you can't show any joy, or stay lighthearted and full of fun.

And that is clearly what this was. Lighthearted and fun.

Rachel was smart enough to suss that the selection was so good that Jack was probably fishing... and Jack responded by bantering back with her, and admitting that he was... Makes for good viewing. I can't understand why anyone would take offence to that good humoured exchange led by the show's hostess? It's just a mindset that's alien to me.


Also, this:-

Ryan Taylor wrote: ↑Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:15 pm I did similar in my behaviour on the Gold Run on Blockbusters, my ungrateful comments were in poor taste, rather than being funny.

fwiw, you were an absolute hero in that episode imo. Those Gold Runs are up there among my favourite quiz show moments. Just genuinely funny / cheeky stuff... and delivered with charm.
It was one of the only interesting shows in what ended up being a dull and unpopular attempt to revive Blockbusters.
To me, you were hilarious, and managed to come across as good-natured in spite of how 'OMFG' your tactics were.
Simon Mayo, on the other hand, came across as cold, authoritarian and humourless... as though you were doing it as a personal affront to him. Complete charisma-free zone, that man.
It is no surprise that "All New Blockbusters" did not return for a 2nd series... but I am glad that it had a first series, so we got to see your Gold Runs.

haha obviously an excellent thread

Hi! I just read this whole thread and remember this episode and Jack saying that about the A.
I don't think I would have been offended tbh and for me as a viewer it was helpful, telling me there must be a 9 there so look harder! It's like when I haven't seen a numbers solution but see Rachel sitting on her stool smiling at the camera after 10 seconds. 9/10 times when that happens I see the easy solution.
Also I think by the time people appeared on that particular tournament they are well known to regular viewers, so one or two little incidents shouldn't change our opinions of anyone, which have been adequately formed by that time! And I don't mean that in a bad way, ha ha.

Matt Morrison wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:52 am haha obviously an excellent thread

Yeah!
Proper aptodrama!
The murky countdown fan underworld would make for a gripping soap opera. I wonder which production company are most likely to take it on?
(One proviso... Mark Deeks and Richard Brittain both have to play themselves. No-one else could do those parts justice...)

Trying to work out if Jack's hesitation at the end was because he was deciding how to tell Nick that he wasn't in fact playing Jack Worsley next, or if it was because he was trying to work out how to admit he definitely did know Jack W without revealing any trade secrets.

Peter Mabey wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:42 pm And don't forget that "I hope it's an A" was in direct reply to Rachel aslkng what he wanted

Another classic thread revived. This was a great re-read.

But I can't let this piece of revisionist history go by. When the second "I" came out Jack murmurs "that's a shame", to which Rachel replies "you're after a max score with these nines aren't you!" (not intoned like a question). Then the now-infamous "let's hope it's an A!"

Nina Boyd wrote: ↑Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:27 pm Wayne is a true gentleman. He behaved impeccably.

This is a good post. Nicely understated and delivered before everyone else started posting about the whole affair. Even avoided italicising the "He".

This post:

Zarte Siempre wrote: ↑Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:47 pm I know I'm gonna be controversial saying this, but I've never strayed away from anything but honesty so here goes:

First of all, not denying it was an incredible performance, scores like that are pretty rare online, let alone in the studio. But, although I accept I don't know Jack - and those who do, may understand his character better, but as someone who has no other impression of him, is it just me who found his etiquette extremely poor today?

I found that I had no sympathy when he blew his chance of his max, because I just found him to be incredibly smug, and some of his remarks, especially making it obvious that there was a 9 there for his 3rd nine before the clock had started, I just found really offensive, and I was incredibly impressed with how Wayne carried himself, because I don't think I'd have done so with so much decorum.

As I say, maybe as with a lot of people, if you know someone personally, you get a different impression, or maybe it was just me. But really not impressed tbh.

Z

was immediately followed by this:

Jon O'Neill wrote: ↑Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:56 pm
There's a leaderboard for this discipline. I see Innis and Conor as outliers.

Personally, I don't think Innis and Conor behaved quite that badly when they were on, but it's all a matter of opinions I suppose. But following the link now makes it clear why Rob Foster's never been on the show. He's presumably been pre-emptively banned for his poor behaviour.

And finally, when Jack risked the invalid spousing, he was beaten in the round by Wayne declaring SOUPING. Quite a few people were pleased by this and at least one person thought it was heroic, given that the conundrum scramble was SOUPOHERO.

I enjoyed reading back through this thread! Retrospective apologies to Wayne for how much of a little shit I was, and to those who were offended by my over defensive response in this thread.

I think I wasn't the most mature 20 year old and it showed in this episode and in the way I responded to the criticism here.

Still gutted about missing the 150 in this episode and I wasn't looking forward to this one being rebroadcast TBH!

JackHurst wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:32 pm I enjoyed reading back through this thread! Retrospective apologies to Wayne for how much of a little shit I was, and to those who were offended by my over defensive response in this thread.

I think I wasn't the most mature 20 year old and it showed in this episode and in the way I responded to the criticism here.

Still gutted about missing the 150 in this episode and I wasn't looking forward to this one being rebroadcast TBH!

Was great to watch! The really unfortunate thing is that spousing is now a valid word - https://www.lexico.com/definition/spousing

JackHurst wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:32 pm Retrospective apologies to Wayne for how much of a little shit I was

Nope.
You don't need to apologise for anything. (Well, perhaps for becoming a dull, cowed 27 year old! )

That is one of the worst things about the Countdown community: the tendency among some of the louder, more abrasive characters to try shame the individuality out of any aspiring new players. I've seen it time and again.

Just to be clear:-
1. There is nothing wrong with showing personality on screen.
2. It is fine to declare ECHIDNA even though you've seen CHAINED.
3. Doing a 4L using one of the 'tricks' when a straightforward method is available, does not make you a bad person.
4. Suggesting what you'd like the final letter to be in a round is grand, so long as you're not doing it every single round.
5. Being openly competitive and actively striving to break / set records, is not 'dickish' behaviour.

Authenticity, personality... these make good telly.
False humility, simpering deference... not so much.

I'm with Eoin on this (although I missed the 'A' round, but doesn't sound like a hangable offence)
At the end I could see you were gutted - my reaction (I said out loud to family) was "poor lad, he's so disappointed", not "what a dick." Can't believe what a hard time you got over it.

Amazing score, and very unlucky with SPOUSING which is also what I (validly!) declared.

First Round Game 13 2020 Word Update

The max would have increased by three (from 152 to 155), if played today, as there were 8's available in Rounds 4, 9 and 12, that weren't available in 2013.

Most notably, Jack's offering of SPOUSING would've been allowed today, so the final scored would've been 151-82, which would've been the new record high score of the show....

New Words Now Allowed:

R4: UNJAILED (increases MAX from 7 to 8)
R7: AEVUMS
R9: RIDGELET (increases MAX from 7 to 8)
R12: SPOUSING (increases MAX from 7 to 8)