Spoilers for Friday 20th June 2008

[JasonCullen]

Today is the series 58 grand final between David O'Donnell and Richard Priest . The quarters and semis have not disappointed so far in terms of entertainment and word quality so hopefully this match will be no different . On paper, David would go into this game as the favourite but can Richard defy the odds and defeat the Irish titan? Or will David justify his number one seeding with another excellent performance in the game that matters the most - the Countdown series final? Time will tell...

[JasonCullen]

Me and Dinos had AORTAS

[Dinos Sfyris]

AORTAS as an equaller

Surprised Dr Phil didnt get that one

edit: ha just seen your above post!

[Joseph Bolas]

ALARMED equaller

[JasonCullen]

75 + (100+50)/25) = 81 x (5+3) = 648 as 1st numbers alternative

[Ben Wilson]

(10+10+4)*6*6+25=889

In time, too

[Peter Mabey]

Would DEEDIEST be allowable?

[Dinos Sfyris]

Would DEEDIEST be allowable?

According to Countmax no.

[Ben Wilson]

I think we can now safely say 'congratulations Doddy!'

[Dinos Sfyris]

No CHAPETTE. Bum

Indeed well done David

[Joseph Bolas]

I think we can now safely say 'congratulations Doddy!'

I second that. Very well done David .

Comiserations Richard, but you did very well to get to the final and at least you spotted MIRADOR .

[JasonCullen]

I'm surprised no-one got that conundrum! I wanted them to go to the audience because I got SCORELINE in literally 3 seconds but they didn't have time

[JasonCullen]

Well done David .

Congrats to Richard too but you were unlucky with the letters and numbers today. They were horrible

[Joseph Bolas]

I'm surprised no-one got that conundrum! I wanted them to go to the audience because I got SCORELINE in literally 3 seconds but they didn't have time

Do you mind, I am the one who normally braggs about how easy they are

[Matt Coates]

loos like they cut out the bit where david dropped the trophy

[JasonCullen]

I'm surprised no-one got that conundrum! I wanted them to go to the audience because I got SCORELINE in literally 3 seconds but they didn't have time

Do you mind, I am the one who normally braggs about how easy they are

I'm guessing you got it

[Matthew Green]

Brilliant stuff David, especially the first numbers game today. Shame about some horrible selections though.

I have to say though, I'd take £1000 cash over them dictionaries any day....

[Richard Priest]

I had severe self-inflicted bruises on my shins after missing APOGEES and also saw LEXICON but in the heat of battle wasn't sure if it was capitalised so didn't risk it. But it would have served only to make the niceloser (sorry couldn't resist that) a bit less one-sided. David played a great game and deserved to win.

[Damian E]

I'm surprised no-one got that conundrum! I wanted them to go to the audience because I got SCORELINE in literally 3 seconds but they didn't have time

Wrong Jason,

We had bags of time. I was all for it but Kate said you were just TOO hideous to ruin the climax of a final with.............

[Jon O'Neill]

Well in lads. Very entertaining stuff!

[Joseph Bolas]

I'm surprised no-one got that conundrum! I wanted them to go to the audience because I got SCORELINE in literally 3 seconds but they didn't have time

Do you mind, I am the one who normally braggs about how easy they are

I'm guessing you got it

Well... no , but thats because SCORELINE (after checking) can be related to football, so I think its a good thing that I didn't know this one

[Ray Folwell]

Congratulations David , it's been a great series.

3rd numbers (3 x (6+8) x (100-6)) / 4
Took me about 10 minutes though

[JasonCullen]

I'm surprised no-one got that conundrum! I wanted them to go to the audience because I got SCORELINE in literally 3 seconds but they didn't have time

Wrong Jason,

We had bags of time. I was all for it but Kate said you were just TOO hideous to ruin the climax of a final with.............

. I don't think Kate would say that .

Just face it Damian you chose an "easy" conundrum and MINESHAFT or PAYMASTER would have been worthy final conundrums

[Martin Gardner]

Yeah very well done, for my part I wasn't home in time to watch the first five rounds so I'm trying to get them online, I might try YouTube next. But very well done I'm very impressed David and the #1 seed has done it again. Note that the two players in the final were the two with the highest average score - Richard was averaging about 99.6 points per game whereas the three remaining Octochamps were all averaging below 98 points per game, so it just does show that average score counts when it comes to winning games. Again, including Series 46 there have been 13 15-round series and the #1 seed has won 9 of them, again, points win prizes.

So overall well done to David, clearly the best player of the Series and well done to Richard as well who deserved to be an Octochamp and should still return for the next CofC.

Martin

Edit: It just appeared on 4OD so I've just seen it.

Martin

[Michael Wallace]

loos like they cut out the bit where david dropped the trophy

Did that really happen, or is this a funny funny joke?

And yes, well done DOD, great stuff (although sucks to be you missing that conundrum - although I found the scramble NICELOSER initially distracting in itself ).

[Damian E]

Just face it Damian you chose an "easy" conundrum and MINESHAFT or PAYMASTER would have been worthy final conundrums - said Jason (forgotten how to do the quote thingy)


All the QF conundrums were, to the best of my knowledge, brand new to the show and had never been used before. SCORELINE got the Final spot as it lends itself far better to a segue from Des than the others did. We didnt go to the audience deliberately, that was plaanned before we started. Just felt that it was all about the 2 lads playing so wanted to concentrate on them.

Just realised that EASYTRAMP would have been a far better mix-up for PAYMASTER. Still, i got over it pretty quickly.

Hope you enjoyed your stint on the national ITV news bulletin Jason.

[Damian E]

So overall well done to David, clearly the best player of the Series and well done to Richard as well who deserved to be an Octochamp and should still return for the next CofC.

Martin

Funny you should mention the C of C. I've got 13 of the 16 participants sorted out so far, and was thinking about how many countless hours you would spend theorising and speculating over who will take part and why, their seeding, their likely pairing against another player etc.

I even thought about just posting the names up here, to deprive you of the pleasures, but realised it would be mean spirited of me.

If you can correctly name the 13 invitees so far, in 1 go, i'll happily lock myself in a room with you and Richard Brittain for 7 days in the name of entertainment.

Edit ** please delete the word happily from my last sentence.

[JasonCullen]

Just face it Damian you chose an "easy" conundrum and MINESHAFT or PAYMASTER would have been worthy final conundrums.

Only joking Damian . Apart from SCORELINE and GLYCERINE, I thought you're conundrums were very good, in fact, brilliant (unlike Joseph!)

Hope you enjoyed your stint on the national ITV news bulletin Jason

Very much so Damian. Cheers for the opportunity (i'm presuming you had something to do with it!). It kinda made up for the disappointment of not playing in the finals. Felt like a bit of a numpty though but still it was a great experience

[Michael Wallace]

Hope you enjoyed your stint on the national ITV news bulletin Jason

Very much so Damian. Cheers for the opportunity (i'm presuming you had something to do with it!). It kinda made up for the disappointment of not playing in the finals. Felt like a bit of a numpty though but still it was a great experience

Now then now then what's all this about?

[Martin Gardner]

So overall well done to David, clearly the best player of the Series and well done to Richard as well who deserved to be an Octochamp and should still return for the next CofC.

Martin

Funny you should mention the C of C. I've got 13 of the 16 participants sorted out so far, and was thinking about how many countless hours you would spend theorising and speculating over who will take part and why, their seeding, their likely pairing against another player etc.

I even thought about just posting the names up here, to deprive you of the pleasures, but realised it would be mean spirited of me.

If you can correctly name the 13 invitees so far, in 1 go, i'll happily lock myself in a room with you and Richard Brittain for 7 days in the name of entertainment.

Edit ** please delete the word happily from my last sentence.

I was actually just trying to say something nice, since he's a member of the forum and all that.

Martin

[JasonCullen]

Well I was asked by Countdown to appear on the ITN national lunchtime news on Tuesday! I was asked on my views on the governments idea of having specialist teachers in our schools . It was a live interview so I was literally crapping myself when I went on air . But overall I think it went okay and it was a good experience

[Damian E]

Martin,

I was playing with you.

The bet still stands though.............

[Damian E]

Well I was asked by Countdown to appear on the ITN national lunchtime news on Tuesday! I was asked on my views on the governments idea of having specialist teachers in our schools . It was a live interview so I was literally crapping myself when I went on air . But overall I think it went okay and it was a good experience

It went great Jason, we've been inundated with women sending their panties into the office and clambering to get your phone number. My wardrobe never looked better

[Richard Brittain]

I even thought about just posting the names up here, to deprive you of the pleasures, but realised it would be mean spirited of me.

Oh, could you PM me the names?

[JasonCullen]

It went great Jason, we've been inundated with women sending their panties into the office and clambering to get your phone number. My wardrobe never looked better

Feel free to either post the ladies phone numbers through PM and/or preferably don't hesitate in sending the free panties also . My wardrobe needs a bit of colour

[Damian E]

Sorry about the free panties.

Lara and Kate got there first. They needed them believe me...........


Edit to add - monday morning wont be one of my better days when they read this.

[JasonCullen]

Sorry about the free panties.

Lara and Kate got there first. They needed them believe me...........


Edit to add - monday morning wont be one of my better days when they read this.

.

Nothing worse than raging women wearing other womens panties

[Julian Fell]

Hmmm... Anyway I'd just like to add my voice to the many congratulating David - another excellent performance, and some great spots from (yet again...) tricky selections. The combined difficulty of those three numbers games must be a record for a series final, surely?? But to pull that first one out of the bag, under pressure when it mattered most, was special. Great stuff and you've definitely cemented your place as one of the greats in my view.

For the record, I got TOTARAS as a beater in round 1... I missed POCHETTE though, and couldn't get any of the numbers rounds spot on.

I do hope (not theorizing or speculating Damian, just hoping) that Jonathan Coles is one of the 13 for the next CofC, he deserves to be there. Well done everybody for a great series!

[Paul Gallen]

Just want to add my congratulations to David. Whilst the final wasnt quite the dramatic thrillers of the semi finals, it certainly was a real test of word knowledge and numbers prowess which I enjoyed- a lot of the letters rounds had only one 7 as the winner (LEXICON TOTARAS EPIDOTE APOGEES) and some difficult numbers were thrown up by CECIL. Of the two finalists, David coped the best and in my opinion was a well deserved winner.

Paul

[Paul Howe]

Congratulations to David for a well deserved victory, and to Richard, they were both fantastic and consistently came up with great spots throughout the finals, I still can't believe Richard didn't make octochamp.

Hopefully both will be back for the next CofC, where I think David might have a chance (albeit a slim one) of toppling Craig. Here is some CofC speculation, included purely to annoy Damian:

Jon Corby
Richard Brittain
Stephen Byers (Briars?)
Nick Wainwright
Anita Freeland
Aaron Can't Remember His Surname
Craig Beevers
Jeffrey Hansford (although there may be some issues there!)
David O'Donnell
Richard Priest
Jonathan Coles
2/3 from the next series

Those are the 11 I would definitely pick. I don't think there's anyone else who's really exceptional, so I would give the last two places to Tony Warren (losing finalist) and Joyce Cansfield (who was lovely, and would make the gender balance slightly less ridiculous)

[JimBentley]

Yep, well done to David, a totally deserving series winner, and well done to Richard for making it a great final, too.

...and Joyce Cansfield (who was lovely, and would make the gender balance slightly less ridiculous)

You mean Joy Longworth, right Paul? Also, you forgot Amey Despande

[Paul Howe]

...and Joyce Cansfield (who was lovely, and would make the gender balance slightly less ridiculous)

You mean Joy Longworth, right Paul? Also, you forgot Amey Despande

Oops, yes that's who I meant Although Joyce Cansfield would also be an interesting selection!

[Benji Hanks]

CofC definitely needs a bit more colour if you ask me

[Julian Fell]

Do we have to have Hansford back I suppose if Damian doesn't invite him he'll kick up a fuss, so there's no choice...

[Richard Brittain]

Paul Howe, I would agree with those 11. I also think there could be a case for James Hurrell and/or Steve Baines, both of Series 57, and any one of Tony Warren, Stu Horsey and Phil Watson from Series 55.

Perhaps I should make a thread aimed at the discussion of the next CoC, since Damian suggested it?

[Paul Howe]

Oh yes, I completely forgot about James, sorry mate! He'll probably get there on the strength of his octochamp score and being a thoroughly decent chap, despite falling at the quarters.

Regarding Jeffrey, I think he gets a slightly harsh rap on here. Some of what he did in the series finals was pretty obviously cheating, but was he truly aware that his actions were wrong? I don't know Jeffrey, and have only limited knowledge of Asperger's so I wouldn't presume to judge either way, but my understanding is that people with his condition have severe difficulties understanding social norms that would be completely obvious to most people, so perhaps this should be taken into consideration. I think it's fantastic that Countdown can give someone like Jeffrey a stage on which to shine, and it would be a shame if he didn't make it back, perhaps after a stern lecture about the rules of the game.

[James Hurrell]

- To be asked would be an honour, but as a losing QF I wouldn't expect it. However, I note that Steven Briers was on your list so in that case..... Perhaps if I practiced 5 or 6 ball juggling, or maybe a trapeze act it would be enough to sway it in my favour!!

I'd like to add my congratulations to those already made to David for a consistently brilliant performance throughout the series and a worthy winner. I was surprised a little (and pleased) that David had a close game in his run with the SF. I think the fact he had a real pressure game and came through it shows he had what it takes to win. Would be interesting to see Craig under pressure, if anyone can get close enough to him!! Maybe CoC??

Here's to an equally high quality Series 59!!

[Julian Fell]

But Paul, whether or not Hansford does it knowingly or with the same amount of understanding as someone without his condition, is it fair that other contestants will be trying to win (what will probably be) close, hard-fought Championship of Champions games against him without cheating, whereas he most likely will be? If I was a contestant in that position I'd probably start asking myself what was the point in being honest...

His opponents so far have been very good about it (Steve Baines etc.), but in the tense atmosphere of a CofC, if contestants see Hansford openly cheating to get through they might start protesting... there could potentially be quite a bit of fallout. Though there would probably be even more fallout if Damian didn't invite him (claims of disability discrimination etc.), so it's between a rock and a hard place really.

I guess he's going to be back, I just hope he won't spoil it too much

(and anyway, Countdown has already shown, with John Davies and Tim Reypert and probably others I don't know of, that it provides a stage for people with Asperger's... and they didn't feel the inclination to cheat)

[Paul Howe]

First of all, I agree with you that it's completely unacceptable and unfair to the other players if cheating is rewarded. With this in mind, it would be up to the production staff to:

a) Before any games are played, make it abundantly clear what is and is not acceptable, and that any incidences of cheating will not be rewarded, which leads to

b) Actually punish cheating. I think it's quite difficult to cheat without it being obvious what you're doing (unless you count the "blind conundrum" as cheating, which I personally don't, although opinions will differ). Take the most brazen incident in one of Jeffrey's matches where he ripped up his paper and then claimed he had the same word as his opponent. If something like this happens, somone should make the call to disallow the word, give the opponent the points, and possibly a warning that repeat behaviour will result in disqualification.

I agree that others with Aspergers have played the game in a sporting manner, and as I said in my previous post I don't know enough about the condition to judge whether it provides a valid excuse for his behaviour. I would argue against treating those with Aspergers as a uniform group though; I think it's clear that it can manifest itself in different ways and that some individuals are a lot higher functioning than others. Jeffrey lives in a home and clearly has a lot of difficulties, and I think it would be a shame to deny someone like that one of the very few opportunities he's had to succeed in his life.

[Damian E]

I can see it now Paul...............

"I'm sorry, but due to foul play, a contestant on Countdown this afternoon was disqualified and the victory awarded to the opponent, so today's edition will only run for 7 and a half minutes. After that, we'll have some music for you"

[Tom]

"I agree that others with Aspergers have played the game in a sporting manner, and as I said in my previous post I don't know enough about the condition to judge whether it provides a valid excuse for his behaviour. I would argue against treating those with Aspergers as a uniform group though; I think it's clear that it can manifest itself in different ways and that some individuals are a lot higher functioning than others. Jeffrey lives in a home and clearly has a lot of difficulties, and I think it would be a shame to deny someone like that one of the very few opportunities he's had to succeed in his life".

I don't usually speak openly about things like this but I think its time for me to so now.

Aspergers is a very diverse condition where no 2 people are the same. I know this because I myself have it, and got diagnosed at 10 in 1995 when its knowledge had only come to the UK around a year prior. If Jeffrey was my age I'd be almost certain he would not be living in a home with the difficulties he has and would not have the social deficits he has - its just unfortunate . Probably reason he is the way he is due to non-existent resources when his problems kicked in when he was probably a teenager. A lot of people his age with the condition are in homes, claim benefits and indeed employment wise are in menial jobs. I'm thankful not to be involved with any of that. At the end of the day, Jeffrey did do very well and I'm really pleased for him that he got recognition - although I never watched, I read the media about him and there seemed to be something about him I liked.

Indeed also, there have been a fair deal of people with the condition who have performed very well on the show that I;ve seen in the past (though naming no names) Though I've always had a natural aptitude at being good at Countdown, having AS gifted me to do it about 5 years earlier.

[Julian Fell]

Tom, not to belittle or trivialize it, but I'm gobsmacked to hear that - you're one of the most well-rounded, sociable people I've ever met. If you have AS, how many others must have it... perhaps I'd better shut up as I clearly know nothing about this subject. As I say though, am really surprised.

Anyway, leaving aside the AS matter, buzzing for the conundrum before you know the answer is cheating, end of. It's like on University Challenge, when they have those occasional mental arithmetic or similar questions, and Paxman will sternly say, "You must work out the answer to this BEFORE you buzz" - so as to stop one team buzzing and then umming and ahhing for 20 seconds working out the answer, whilst the other team are out of it. Press-and-then-guess on the conundrum is just as clearly wrong; it's more difficult to detect though, unless you do it as often and as blatantly as Jeffrey did. And even then there's not really much the production team can do about it.

[Paul Howe]

I can see it now Paul...............

"I'm sorry, but due to foul
play, a contestant on Countdown this afternoon was disqualified and the
victory awarded to the opponent, so today's edition will only run for 7
and a half minutes. After that, we'll have some music for you"

Haha, I did say possibly. Perhaps you could threaten them with being locked in a room with me, Martin and Richard

Anyway, leaving aside the AS matter, buzzing
for the conundrum before you know the answer is cheating, end of. It's
like on University Challenge, when they have those occasional mental
arithmetic or similar questions, and Paxman will sternly say, "You must
work out the answer to this BEFORE you buzz" - so as to stop one team
buzzing and then umming and ahhing for 20 seconds working out the
answer, whilst the other team are out of it. Press-and-then-guess on
the conundrum is just as clearly wrong; it's more difficult to detect
though, unless you do it as often and as blatantly as Jeffrey did. And
even then there's not really much the production team can do about it.

Did he really do it that consistently? I didn't see his octo run, but can't recall anyone on c4c calling him on it until the quarters, and he actually got beaten to the punch in one game. The only games we can be sure he did it were the quarters and the semis, although as you say it's hard to tell.

I don't think there's anything in the rules about the blind conundrum, so in a purely legal sense it's not cheating. Beyond that it's down to people's (cheers MW!) concepts of fairness and sportsmanship, and everyone is going to have different ideas about those. I don't have a problem with it as I think it significantly decreases your chances of picking up the ten points. This is with the proviso that Des presses the contestant for an answer and doesn't allow any hesitation, and in your UC example I'm sure that any umming and ahhing would be punished by Paxo with an effortlessly sardonic barb.

Finally, I'm astonsihed to learn that you have AS Tom, as I'd never have guessed it from your TV appearances.

[Howard Somerset]

I've just managed to watch the game. In my view, clearly the two best players of the series competed in the final. Congrats to both players for making it, and especially to David for becoming champion. Hope to watch you both in the next COC.

[Kate Horton]

Sorry about the free panties.

Lara and Kate got there first. They needed them believe me...........


Edit to add - monday morning wont be one of my better days when they read this.

Too bloody right, you f*ucker.

[Richard Priest]

Sorry about the free panties.

Lara and Kate got there first. They needed them believe me...........


Edit to add - monday morning wont be one of my better days when they read this.

Too bloody right, you f*ucker.

Kate, I'm shocked - - I would never have expected to see you use such language!

Mind you I nearly used similar words myself yesterday morning in my local church when, after announcing their congratulations, they played the chorus from "The Final Countdown" (Europe) very loudly and made me feel about 2cm tall.

[Benji Hanks]

i sang that during the free drinks...