Spoilers for Wednesday 10th December SF1

Ben Hunter · Post by **Ben Hunter** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:08 pm

Siblings Charlie and Kai battle it out in the first semi final of the series.

Ben Hunter · Post by **Ben Hunter** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:36 pm

I missed the first two rounds, what words did Kai get?

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:39 pm

First numbers, inspired a bit by 4-large methods

75 / 3 = 25
25 * 25 = 625
10 * 2 = 20
625 - 20 + 2 = 607

Mark Kudlowski · Post by **Mark Kudlowski** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:42 pm

Did I miss the panel saying IMPOSABLE in Round 3 ?

(Sorry, but I tend to watch the show with the sound down whenever Jo Brand is on).

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:42 pm

Ben Hunter wrote:Siblings Charlie and Kai battle it out in the first semi final of the series.

phew, not just me that noticed that then (knowing my lack of on-the-ball-ness its probably a forum joke I wasn't aware of though)

Martin Gardner wrote:First numbers, inspired a bit by 4-large methods

nice work Martin, you (and Carol) got there seconds before me, d'oh!

Ben Hunter wrote:I missed the first two rounds, what words did Kai get?

R1: Charlie said he had a 7 but then when asked had forgotten it, obviously not written down either. Kai had STATELY
R2: Charlie had a 6 and Kai a 7 but they've slipped my mind now.

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:50 pm

RTRGOUEOA
couple of levellers for 7: GARROTE, GROUTER

Ken MacKenzie · Post by **Ken MacKenzie** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:53 pm

Mark Kudlowski wrote:(Sorry, but I tend to watch the show with the sound down whenever Jo Brand is on).

I find that helps. Also, try closing your eyes, it improves the experience immensely!

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:56 pm

numbers game for 214: WOW! I would have bet my house on both Kai and Charlie getting 10 points within a few seconds.
Thank god I don't own a house.

25 5 5 4 3 7

(25 - 4) x (5 + 5) = 21 x 10 = 210
7 - 3 = 4
210 + 4 = 214

Mark Kudlowski · Post by **Mark Kudlowski** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:57 pm

2nd numbers game:

((25 x 4) + 7) x (5 - 3)= 214

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:57 pm

I'll do the second numbers as well then (rare for me to get numbers games, lol)

25 - 4 = 21
(5 + 5) * 21 = 210
210 + 7 - 3 = 214

Ben Wilson · Post by **Ben Wilson** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:02 pm

Got the final R this time.

(nearly NOTARIZED in the IONIZER round)

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:05 pm

Des: "looks like Charlie might sneak this but we'll see" - with Charlie 29 points ahead and 20 points of games left to be played

reminds me of Les Dennis on old skool Family Fortunes saying "come on we might still do it" when they need 70 points from the last answer, despite the fact they have already found the top answer for 35 points.

Joseph Bolas · Post by **Joseph Bolas** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:06 pm

LAMEBRAIN was a tough conundrum.

Ben Hunter · Post by **Ben Hunter** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:07 pm

My housemates are fuming at the result, but I enjoyed it. Well done both Charlie and Kai.

Craig Beevers · Post by **Craig Beevers** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:08 pm

I did the numbers (25 + 5) * 7, + 4

It's one of those that's a lot easier to get if you're at home not panicking when the more direct routes don't work.

Ken MacKenzie · Post by **Ken MacKenzie** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:11 pm

Joseph Bolas wrote:LAMEBRAIN was a tough conundrum.

But Jo Brand got it - does this mean that I have to take back everything I've ever said about her?

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:12 pm

Good game, very tense although not an *amazingly* high standard. I'd have to fancy whoever wins the second semi-final to win the whole thing (NB I'm being honest, not harsh). Bear in mind, that the other two in their respective semi-finals scored 236 out of a possible 244 combined! Interesting that Charlie put on the Countdown Wiki that Kai won this series - was this a bizarre mistake or a red herring? Anyway I thought Kai was very very good and got some very difficult words and numbers. My girlfriend and I think he's an absolute star. Oh and well done to Charlie for winning especially after the first two rounds.

Oh go on then, the final numbers 8 * 100 and add the other four numbers.

Philip Jarvis · Post by **Philip Jarvis** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:22 pm

I'll again have to declare DERATIONS as an alternative 9 to ORDINATES and NOTARISED.

Equallers in rounds 1 and 4 - VITTLES and ZANIEST.

Charlie - well done on getting through. What was the word you forgot in round 1?

Well done also to Kai who put up a good battle - I thought you might do it with the start you got.

Joseph Bolas · Post by **Joseph Bolas** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:28 pm

Ken MacKenzie wrote:
Joseph Bolas wrote:LAMEBRAIN was a tough conundrum.
But Jo Brand got it - does this mean that I have to take back everything I've ever said about her?

It could've just been a lucky guess

Ralph Gillions · Post by **Ralph Gillions** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:36 pm

I enjoyed the game. Thanks to both Kai and Charlie.
Played in a nice spirit (I liked the slightly extended handshake at the end.)
Pity there had to be a loser.
Congratulations Charlie.

Michael Wallace · Post by **Michael Wallace** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:40 pm

Some surprising misses on the numbers, yeah, and I was a bit shocked to see Charlie 14-0 down after two rounds (anyone know what the 7 he thought he had was?).

Was quite pleased to spot LAMEBRAIN, although I wasn't entirely convinced it was one word when I saw it (but presumed that it would be a bit of a coincidence if it wasn't the answer).

This was the first episode I watched live this week. Jo Brand, just why?

Lesley Jeavons · Post by **Lesley Jeavons** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:43 pm

I got the first numbers game in time and grabbed my lap top to sign in to put it here... and then I realised... I'm watching on Ch4+1 today.

I'm wondering if Countdown HQ sent Kai and Charlie messages on what to wear today, and Kai's got lost in the post. Because Charlie's def come as a character from Scooby Doo.

Kai Laddiman · Post by **Kai Laddiman** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:10 pm

As I say, LAMEBRAIN was so obscure that Jo Brand got it.

I can't believe some of the stuff I didn't get today.

Our 9 spot has to be one of the quickest on record - the exact same letters had come up earlier on in the day.

Well done Charlie, you handled the pressure much better than I did. Ah well, there's still the CofC...

David Gunn · Post by **David Gunn** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:14 pm

In the NOTARISED/ORDINATES round, did you see Kai put his pen down and take a drink, then remember "tactics" and pick it up and pretend to scribble. It seemed clear that Charlie was doing the same thing.

Kai Laddiman · Post by **Kai Laddiman** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:16 pm

David Gunn wrote:In the NOTARISED/ORDINATES round, did you see Kai put his pen down and take a drink, then remember "tactics" and pick it up and pretend to scribble. It seemed clear that Charlie was doing the same thing.

I actually tried to take a sneaky quick sip - and I spilt it!

Peter Dunwoody · Post by **Peter Dunwoody** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:18 pm

Kai Laddiman wrote:As I say, LAMEBRAIN was so obscure that Jo Brand got it.

I can't believe some of the stuff I didn't get today.

Our 9 spot has to be one of the quickest on record - the exact same letters had come up earlier on in the day.

Well done Charlie, you handled the pressure much better than I did. Ah well, there's still the CofC...

Yes well done for that Kai. I twigged that you both realised that as well from your grin to each other after the round

Also, I think you knew exactly what you were doing when you said "and a better one please Carol" and I think that Carol knew, and I bet that chuckle came from the back-row made up of the other finalists

Thank you Kai and Charlie for the most fun game I've seen in a while

And also, Lesley, I got the first numbers game as well only to realise I too was watching 4+1

Lesley Jeavons · Post by **Lesley Jeavons** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:30 pm

Peter Dunwoody wrote:And also, Lesley, I got the first numbers game as well only to realise I too was watching 4+1

lol Yes, and got the second one in seconds too - the 30 x 7 way that someone's posted above.

PS I noticed my typo above 'come' instead of 'came'.

Kirk Bevins · Post by **Kirk Bevins** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:22 pm

By the way there is no VITTELS/VITTLES, IMPOSABLE or GARROTE (it's GAROTTE) so they don't count. I'd just like to add that I too missed 214 - tried a few ways in the time and every way produced being 1 out. Next on the list was to try working up from 25x7 which actually worked (the (25+5)x7 route). Annoyed to have missed LAMEBRAIN as it's come up on apterous a few times.

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:53 pm

Philip Jarvis wrote:I'll again have to declare DERATIONS as an alternative 9 to ORDINATES and NOTARISED.

Equallers in rounds 1 and 4 - VITTLES and ZANIEST.

Charlie - well done on getting through. What was the word you forgot in round 1?

My word in round 1 was VITTLES (which is valid, dunno what Kirk's on about.) For some reason, when Des came to me I misremembered the word I'd had as WATTLES, then glanced at the selection and saw there was no W, so ended up saying nothing at all. Funny what the pressure does to you.

As for IMPOSABLE, that's the nine I declined in round 3 (or did that get edited out?) I suspect most players would jump on a possible nine at 14-0 down (Jono told me he would've gone for it) so I was for once pleased with my decision making.

Well played, Kai. You had me worried for a long time there.

Peter Dunwoody · Post by **Peter Dunwoody** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:02 pm

Also Charlie, another thing that I noticed, and was not too happy about, is that we could have had "leotard" in one of the rounds had it not been for your vowel fixation

However I appreciate we're onto the semis and the main aim is to win the thing!

There is just another part of me that keep remembering that it's Carol's last week

Dan Vanniasingham · Post by **Dan Vanniasingham** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:49 pm

Peter Dunwoody wrote:Also Charlie, another thing that I noticed, and was not too happy about, is that we could have had "leotard" in one of the rounds had it not been for your vowel fixation

This immediately ranks highly in my "utterly baffling c4c quotes" list (which doesn't actually exist, but still). Did you seriously sit there infront of the tv with a flicker of rage when the next consonant was revealed as an R? Or are you actually just musing somewhat on what could've been. I hope it's the latter, otherwise I recommend counselling.

This was another entertaining game where both players played well in spells, but made a few understandable slip-ups. Charlie came through as a deserved winner, but Kai has contributed hugely to the series, and is fully deserving of a CoC entrant spot. I'm looking forward to the second SF even more now to see if Junaid and Martin can match their QF performances.

Peter Dunwoody · Post by **Peter Dunwoody** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:02 pm

Dan Vanniasingham wrote:
Peter Dunwoody wrote:Also Charlie, another thing that I noticed, and was not too happy about, is that we could have had "leotard" in one of the rounds had it not been for your vowel fixation
This immediately ranks highly in my "utterly baffling c4c quotes" list (which doesn't actually exist, but still). Did you seriously sit there infront of the tv with a flicker of rage when the next consonant was revealed as an R? Or are you actually just musing somewhat on what could've been. I hope it's the latter, otherwise I recommend counselling.

It was the latter...it wasn't so much a flicker of rage just more of an "aww that would have been nice" feeling...I don't sit at home on "leotard-watch" if that's what you mean, nor do I expect the contestants to

Dan Vanniasingham · Post by **Dan Vanniasingham** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:24 pm

Peter Dunwoody wrote:It was the latter...it wasn't so much a flicker of rage just more of an "aww that would have been nice" feeling...I don't sit at home on "leotard-watch" if that's what you mean, nor do I expect the contestants to

Fair enough then Peter - apologies for taking your phrasing the wrong way.

On the "fifth vowel" front, I've enjoyed trying to work out whether a) Charlie has a word he's seeking to protect, b) Charlie has spotted a vowel gives a longer word, or c) both. It worked well today (in the one round I recall), and adds some nice variety to the letters too.

Oliver Garner · Post by **Oliver Garner** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:28 pm

Pleased with INSULAE as an equaller for round 2

Paul Howe · Post by **Paul Howe** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:32 pm

I can get quite peevish when a contestant picks the "wrong" letter, I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Good entertaining game today, well done Charlie and hard luck Kai, you've been brilliant for the whole series.

And I'm sure VITTLES is OK, but it doesn't seem to be in my (admittedly old) version of CountMax, which is probably the source of Kirk's confusion.

Peter Dunwoody · Post by **Peter Dunwoody** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:35 pm

Dan Vanniasingham wrote:
Peter Dunwoody wrote:It was the latter...it wasn't so much a flicker of rage just more of an "aww that would have been nice" feeling...I don't sit at home on "leotard-watch" if that's what you mean, nor do I expect the contestants to
Fair enough then Peter - apologies for taking your phrasing the wrong way.

On the "fifth vowel" front, I've enjoyed trying to work out whether a) Charlie has a word he's seeking to protect, b) Charlie has spotted a vowel gives a longer word, or c) both. It worked well today (in the one round I recall), and adds some nice variety to the letters too.

I actually think it's a good strategy for a different reason.

Maybe it's just me, but when the only four consonants are grouped together at the beginning, and I know that there is nothing else to choose from, a word that uses all four usually just seems to jump into my head without me needing to think about it. And with the abundance of vowels to choose from to fill in the gaps the chances are it is usually in the selection.

Joseph Bolas · Post by **Joseph Bolas** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:34 pm

Kai Laddiman wrote:Well done Charlie, you handled the pressure much better than I did. Ah well, there's still the CofC...

Yeah well done to Charlie and good luck in the finals. After the first two rounds I did think that you were going to win it Kai, but you did have a tough opponet.

Kai Laddiman wrote:As I say, LAMEBRAIN was so obscure that Jo Brand got it.

Not everyone would call it an obscure word

(but then I have probably spent too long on Apterous, doing Conundrum Challenges

)

Jon O'Neill · Post by **Jon O'Neill** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:38 pm

It's obscure in a real-life sense, Joseph. Unless by your bracketed sentence that your real life consists solely of conundrum challenges, which I would believe.

Phil Reynolds · Post by **Phil Reynolds** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:50 am

I'm sure the studio situation is very different, and "obvious" is of course an entirely subjective term, but I must say the second numbers game did look obvious to me - I was gobsmacked not only that neither Charlie nor Kai got it, but also that Carol's method seemed so roundabout. Seeing 214 as the target, with 7 as one of the numbers, I immediately think "OK - I need to make 107 and double it", which is how I ended up with (25 x 4 + 7) x (5 - 3). But of course everyone approaches these things differently.

Anyway, belated echoings of what others have already said: very entertaining game, loved the sporting cameraderie between the two of you, congratulations Charlie, and well played Kai.

Joseph Bolas · Post by **Joseph Bolas** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:10 am

Jon O'Neill wrote:It's obscure in a real-life sense, Joseph. Unless by your bracketed sentence that your real life consists solely of conundrum challenges, which I would believe.

No, my life doesn't solely consist of conundrum challenges

I spend way too much time on Apterous doing the conundrum challenges, I should really start focusing on the words and numbers rounds (I'm still crap at most of them).

Philip Jarvis · Post by **Philip Jarvis** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:29 am

Kirk Bevins wrote:By the way there is no VITTELS/VITTLES, IMPOSABLE or GARROTE (it's GAROTTE) so they don't count.

Vittles is in my copy of the OED that was presented to me in 2002.

"vittle - noun archaic variant spelling of VICTUAL"

David Gunn · Post by **David Gunn** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:34 am

Phil Reynolds wrote:Anyway, belated echoings of what others have already said: very entertaining game, loved the sporting cameraderie between the two of you, congratulations Charlie, and well played Kai.

Well said, Phil, couldn't have put it better myself.

Strangely, my "obvious" route for the second numbers was via 30x7 posted above by Craig Beevers.

Frank Rodolf · Post by **Frank Rodolf** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:34 am

Alternative for the first number round, which took me about 45 seconds to find, so I would never have gotten it in the show:

(25 x 2 + 3) x 10 + 75 + 2

Kai Laddiman · Post by **Kai Laddiman** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:52 am

Joseph Bolas wrote:
Ken MacKenzie wrote:
Joseph Bolas wrote:LAMEBRAIN was a tough conundrum.
But Jo Brand got it - does this mean that I have to take back everything I've ever said about her?
It could've just been a lucky guess

It was

Kai Laddiman · Post by **Kai Laddiman** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:54 am

On the IMPOSABLE topic, Charlie declared a 'safe' 7 - IMPOSABLE was his other thought. (Damn, I wish he'd gone for it - 7 more points for me!)

Matt Coates · Post by **Matt Coates** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:02 am

Kai Laddiman wrote:On the IMPOSABLE topic, Charlie declared a 'safe' 7 - IMPOSABLE was his other thought. (Damn, I wish he'd gone for it - 7 more points for me!)

that would have made all the difference wouldn't it

it wouldn't have been 7 more points for you, it would hve been 7 points less to Charlie

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:41 pm

Dan Vanniasingham wrote:On the "fifth vowel" front, I've enjoyed trying to work out whether a) Charlie has a word he's seeking to protect, b) Charlie has spotted a vowel gives a longer word, or c) both. It worked well today (in the one round I recall), and adds some nice variety to the letters too.

I just like 5 vowels, the same way some people like 4 large, and I would guess (no statistics) that I won a higher proportion of those rounds than of any others. I enjoyed that Daily Duel with 6-vowel selections actually, might do another of those some time.

Joseph Bolas wrote:Not everyone would call it an obscure word (but then I have probably spent too long on Apterous, doing Conundrum Challenges )

It wasn't on the Apterous list of conundrums at the time, I added it later (along with LASERDISC and maybe a few other nasty ones from the finals.) Incidentally LASERDISC was the only conundrum I got in the whole block of six episodes. And yes, Jo was joking when she said LAMEBRAIN, although it was retaken to make it look less of a guess.

Kai Laddiman · Post by **Kai Laddiman** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:57 pm

Did you notice how Jo said PUNPEAS but it wasn't in the selection!

Phil Reynolds · Post by **Phil Reynolds** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:01 pm

Kai Laddiman wrote:Did you notice how Jo said PUNPEAS but it wasn't in the selection!

Ditto PATEROT.

Kirk Bevins · Post by **Kirk Bevins** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:04 pm

Philip Jarvis wrote:
Kirk Bevins wrote:By the way there is no VITTELS/VITTLES, IMPOSABLE or GARROTE (it's GAROTTE) so they don't count.
Vittles is in my copy of the OED that was presented to me in 2002.

"vittle - noun archaic variant spelling of VICTUAL"

Yes I messed up. Charlie corrected me correctly, VITTLES is in. Paul Howe nailed the reason why I messed up - because I used my version of countmax which doesn't have it in but it's definitely in ODE2r. Sorry for my post.

Paul Howe · Post by **Paul Howe** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:42 pm

Why does everyone call me Paul Howe instead of just Paul? It happens in real life too.

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:09 pm

Paul Howe wrote:Why does everyone call me Paul Howe instead of just Paul? It happens in real life too.

I don't know, I've met you a good bunch of times and consider you one of my most trusted members on here, but I always think of you as Paul Howe even when there is no other Paul. Maybe it just has a certain ring to it because both words are short. I'll experiment with calling you Paul and we'll see if it sticks.

Joseph Bolas · Post by **Joseph Bolas** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:55 pm

Paul Howe wrote:Why does everyone call me Paul Howe instead of just Paul? It happens in real life too.

Not being picky, but when I asked you before about how long it took you to do the duel, I refered to you as Paul, so it's not everyone

Kirk Bevins · Post by **Kirk Bevins** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:06 pm

Paul Howe wrote:Why does everyone call me Paul Howe instead of just Paul? It happens in real life too.

Paul sounds so common but when you say the "Howe" part it scares the shit into any man.

Oliver Garner · Post by **Oliver Garner** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:45 pm

Paul Howe wrote:Why does everyone call me Paul Howe instead of just Paul? It happens in real life too.

I always get called Ollie Garner in real lifw too

Chris Davies · Post by **Chris Davies** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:12 pm

I did get SANITIZE (missed by both contestants), and I saw ORDINATES before the clock even started for that round, but not NOTARISED.

Howard Somerset · Post by **Howard Somerset** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:37 am

Charlie Reams wrote:I just like 5 vowels, the same way some people like 4 large, and I would guess (no statistics) that I won a higher proportion of those rounds than of any others.

You've to whisper "statistics" and I jump.

Of the 88 letters games in your prelims, Charlie, 9 contained five vowels. You tied the very first of those, but won all eight of the rest.

Of the remaining 79 letters games, you won 36, tied 36, and lost 7.

So your suspicions of doing better with the 5 vowel rounds is completely founded.

I've just finished watching your semi, and even though I already knew a little about what happened, particularly the score after round 2, I still enjoyed it immensely. Well done both of you. Well done, Kai. You've plenty to be proud of, and I now look forward to seeing your next showing in January. And well done Charlie, for having the nerve to fight back straight away after the shock of those first two rounds.

BTW, I did the second numbers round Craig's way. Must be the first time I've ever matched him on anything.