Spoilers for Monday 20th November 2017.

Discuss anything that happened in recent games. This is the place to post any words you got that beat Dictionary Corner, or numbers games that evaded Rachel.

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Tom S
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Spoilers for Monday 20th November 2017.

Post by Tom S » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:27 pm

A good game today by two very solid players. Can't help but feel sorry for Beth there today having victory snatched from her just at the last minute. A very good performance from Gyles too ;) - I failed to spot any of "his" 9s. Enjoy watching him as a guest in DC, find him very amusing, and a nice person in real life, too. A very quick conundrum solve from Graeme there, I was thinking he may have done some "Hansfording", but that's just my personal view.
My scores for today:
Me:107-70 (Graeme)
Me:107-52 (Beth)

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Re: Spoilers for Monday 20th November 2017.

Post by Tom S » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:28 pm

Tom S wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:27 pm
A good game today by two very solid players. Can't help but feel sorry for Beth there today having victory snatched from her just at the last minute. A very good performance from Gyles too ;) - I failed to spot any of "his" 9s. Enjoy watching him as a guest in DC, find him very amusing, and a nice person in real life, too, though get the impression that Rachel doesn't :lol:. A very quick conundrum solve from Graeme there, I was thinking he may have done some "Hansfording", but that's just my personal view.
My scores for today:
Me:107-70 (Graeme)
Me:107-52 (Beth)

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Re: Spoilers for Monday 20th November 2017.

Post by Tom S » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:29 pm

Meant to edit the previous post, not reply, am still learning :)

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Re: Spoilers for Monday 20th November 2017.

Post by Johnny Canuck » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:37 pm

Clock must have had a bit of Monday laziness during the conundrum today -- Graeme and others have buzzed at least as early, if not earlier, than his buzz today, and yet today his recorded clock time was still under 1 second.
There are three erors in this semtence.

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Re: Spoilers for Monday 20th November 2017.

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:55 pm

Don't think anyone got this - (75×2-10)×2+9+100=389 for the first numbers.

Also (100-2)×9+50=932 for the standard method in round 9.

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Re: Spoilers for Monday 20th November 2017.

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:56 pm

I didn't think Graeme's buzz was particularly suspicious. It wasn't that quick.

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Re: Spoilers for Monday 20th November 2017.

Post by Johnny Canuck » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:04 pm

In the 1st numbers, both contestants had a leftover 2 that they could have added on to get closer with 388; they could also have gone
100*(2+2)-10=390, as I did.

Or they could have maxed it. Whatev.
There are three erors in this semtence.

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Re: Spoilers for Monday 20th November 2017.

Post by Bradley Horrocks » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:34 pm

I was in the studio for this one, the conundrum was actually very controversial. I think Nick said 'good luck to you both' or something on those lines after asking to roll the crucial conundrum. So the board flipped a good second or two before the clock began, and I think they both tried to buzz. Graeme was the fastest to buzz once the clock began and answered correctly. The decision was made to give Graeme the win and the round was filmed again, with Graeme asked to buzz after a second. I know Beth was upset with the decision but I can't recall who actually tried to buzz first.

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Re: Spoilers for Monday 20th November 2017.

Post by Tom S » Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:29 pm

Bradley Horrocks wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:34 pm
I was in the studio for this one, the conundrum was actually very controversial. I think Nick said 'good luck to you both' or something on those lines after asking to roll the crucial conundrum. So the board flipped a good second or two before the clock began, and I think they both tried to buzz. Graeme was the fastest to buzz once the clock began and answered correctly. The decision was made to give Graeme the win and the round was filmed again, with Graeme asked to buzz after a second. I know Beth was upset with the decision but I can't recall who actually tried to buzz first.
That's very unfortunate if so, I'd hate to be in her boots. Nevertheless, she looked alright on the TV after the conundrum, but that doesn't give away the full story.

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Re: Spoilers for Monday 20th November 2017.

Post by Bradley Horrocks » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:04 pm

Yeah she did to be fair, she was visibly upset in the green room though. She might get invited back next series perhaps, who knows?

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Re: Spoilers for Monday 20th November 2017.

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:35 pm

Interesting. Were Damian etc. aware of what happened? Was it obvious that they'd both tried to buzz already before the clock began or was this just something you found out afterwards?

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Re: Spoilers for Monday 20th November 2017.

Post by Tim Down » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:00 pm

I was surprised (read "cackled gleefully at the screen") when Rachel missed the first numbers. It's a testament to her excellence that it's always a surprise when she misses one.

(100 * 2 - 10) * 2 + 9, since you ask.

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Re: Spoilers for Monday 20th November 2017.

Post by Keith Bennett » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:03 pm

Bradley Horrocks wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:34 pm
I was in the studio for this one, the conundrum was actually very controversial. I think Nick said 'good luck to you both' or something on those lines after asking to roll the crucial conundrum. So the board flipped a good second or two before the clock began, and I think they both tried to buzz.
I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often.

Nick is a much better presenter now than he was in the early days but introducing the conundrum, especially a crucial conundrum, is one thing he has never got right consistently.

If I remember rightly Richard Whitely established a very clear routine with it, said the same thing every day, bar the insertion of the word "crucial" as necessary. Something like "fingers on buzzers" followed by a pause of a couple of seconds and then "Please reveal today's crucial countdown conundrum" immediately followed by pressing the button. Any contestant knew how it went long before they turned up in the studio. It would surely be sensible for Nick to do something similar, consistently.

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Re: Spoilers for Monday 20th November 2017.

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:03 pm

Tim Down wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:00 pm
I was surprised (read "cackled gleefully at the screen") when Rachel missed the first numbers. It's a testament to her excellence that it's always a surprise when she misses one.

(100 * 2 - 10) * 2 + 9, since you ask.
Better than mine actually.

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Re: Spoilers for Monday 20th November 2017.

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:04 pm

Keith Bennett wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:03 pm
Bradley Horrocks wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:34 pm
I was in the studio for this one, the conundrum was actually very controversial. I think Nick said 'good luck to you both' or something on those lines after asking to roll the crucial conundrum. So the board flipped a good second or two before the clock began, and I think they both tried to buzz.
I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often.

Nick is a much better presenter now than he was in the early days but introducing the conundrum, especially a crucial conundrum, is one thing he has never got right consistently.

If I remember rightly Richard Whitely established a very clear routine with it, said the same thing every day, bar the insertion of the word "crucial" as necessary. Something like "fingers on buzzers" followed by a pause of a couple of seconds and then "Please reveal today's crucial countdown conundrum" immediately followed by pressing the button. Any contestant knew how it went long before they turned up in the studio. It would surely be sensible for Nick to do something similar, consistently.
Why doesn't the button start the clock and reveal the conundrum? Insane.

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Re: Spoilers for Monday 20th November 2017.

Post by Graeme Cole » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:07 pm

Bradley Horrocks wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:34 pm
I was in the studio for this one, the conundrum was actually very controversial. I think Nick said 'good luck to you both' or something on those lines after asking to roll the crucial conundrum. So the board flipped a good second or two before the clock began, and I think they both tried to buzz. Graeme was the fastest to buzz once the clock began and answered correctly. The decision was made to give Graeme the win and the round was filmed again, with Graeme asked to buzz after a second. I know Beth was upset with the decision but I can't recall who actually tried to buzz first.
This is really interesting. To clarify, you're saying the sequence of events was as follows:
  • The conundrum scramble was accidentally revealed before Nick started the clock.
  • Both players pressed their buzzer, but because the clock hadn't started the buzzers had no effect, and it was impossible to tell who pressed first.
  • Nick started the clock.
  • Graeme buzzed in and gave the right answer.
And after all that, they decided to accept that buzz as if nothing had happened and award Graeme the win?

In my opinion, the production team has always made generally fair and reasonable decisions befitting of a good referee. But if the above is how it happened, the decision to let the conundrum stand is a bit of a shocker. Neither player did anything wrong - it's not their fault the clock didn't start - but who's to say Beth didn't press first? They should have scrapped that conundrum and played a new one, just as they would have done if they'd accidentally revealed the conundrum during the last numbers game, for example.

Perhaps they reviewed the video and ascertained it was definitely Graeme who tried to buzz first, and that's why they made the decision they did? I'd be surprised if you can be certain that someone is or isn't pressing a small button from that distance, though.
Bradley Horrocks wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:04 pm
She might get invited back next series perhaps, who knows?
Very possible. I'd even say probable.

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Re: Spoilers for Monday 20th November 2017.

Post by Bradley Horrocks » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:28 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:35 pm
Interesting. Were Damian etc. aware of what happened? Was it obvious that they'd both tried to buzz already before the clock began or was this just something you found out afterwards?
Well the floor manager went up to the contestants and was communicating to the production team for a good few minutes. I can't say I definitely saw them both press but I'm quite sure Beth did (hence Rachel's 'just behind on the buzzer' comment at the end to acknowledge what happened) and I'm sure they wouldn't have given it to Graeme if he hadn't buzzed as well.
Graeme Cole wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:07 pm
This is really interesting. To clarify, you're saying the sequence of events was as follows:
  • The conundrum scramble was accidentally revealed before Nick started the clock.
  • Both players pressed their buzzer, but because the clock hadn't started the buzzers had no effect, and it was impossible to tell who pressed first.
  • Nick started the clock.
  • Graeme buzzed in and gave the right answer.
And after all that, they decided to accept that buzz as if nothing had happened and award Graeme the win?

In my opinion, the production team has always made generally fair and reasonable decisions befitting of a good referee. But if the above is how it happened, the decision to let the conundrum stand is a bit of a shocker. Neither player did anything wrong - it's not their fault the clock didn't start - but who's to say Beth didn't press first? They should have scrapped that conundrum and played a new one, just as they would have done if they'd accidentally revealed the conundrum during the last numbers game, for example.

Perhaps they reviewed the video and ascertained it was definitely Graeme who tried to buzz first, and that's why they made the decision they did? I'd be surprised if you can be certain that someone is or isn't pressing a small button from that distance, though.
As above, I can't be sure they both pressed before. It was quite a surprise they didn't redo it. I can only deduce they didn't because they managed to prove Graeme 'buzzed' first. Still, he may have given the wrong answer at that time.

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Re: Spoilers for Monday 20th November 2017.

Post by Bradley Horrocks » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:33 pm

Keith Bennett wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:03 pm
If I remember rightly Richard Whitely established a very clear routine with it, said the same thing every day, bar the insertion of the word "crucial" as necessary. Something like "fingers on buzzers" followed by a pause of a couple of seconds and then "Please reveal today's crucial countdown conundrum" immediately followed by pressing the button. Any contestant knew how it went long before they turned up in the studio. It would surely be sensible for Nick to do something similar, consistently.
It would make sense for either Nick to follow the same pattern every time, or link the button up to the board. It may happen more, although Dudley couldn't remember it happening.

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Re: Spoilers for Monday 20th November 2017.

Post by Elliott Mellor » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:23 am

This is becoming quite a hot thread, very interesting read indeed!

I can definitely see why Beth would be very upset, I would be if I were in her position. I think the way I'd have handled it would be to do a new conundrum, unless as has been suggested they were absolutely certain that Graeme had buzzed first - which must be very hard if not impossible considering how small the button is and their buzzing times being very close.

Another point worth considering is indeed that Graeme was going to buzz in with a different answer, maybe say IMMIGRANT at first, which is what my tired self thought of first. Then after the mishap and he'd had time to digest it fully he realised it was MIGRATING, though I'd like to think this isn't the case.

I'd hope they'd give Beth another chance, very very unfortunate to lose in them circumstances.

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Re: Spoilers for Monday 20th November 2017.

Post by Countdown Team » Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:52 am

The conundrum round is filmed with both contestants positioned in clear view of the camera, so it's relatively easy to see who's hand pressed first in these instances. We look back on the hard-drive and see that Graeme pressed first. Not ideal, but fair.

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Re: Spoilers for Monday 20th November 2017.

Post by Gavin Chipper » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:07 am

Thanks for the clarification.

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Re: Spoilers for Monday 20th November 2017.

Post by Gavin Chipper » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:09 am

Elliott Mellor wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:23 am
Another point worth considering is indeed that Graeme was going to buzz in with a different answer, maybe say IMMIGRANT at first, which is what my tired self thought of first. Then after the mishap and he'd had time to digest it fully he realised it was MIGRATING, though I'd like to think this isn't the case.
I'd say this is unlikely given that his second press (after the clock had started) was probably less than a second after his first press and he was probably more likely to be thinking about why the buzzer wasn't working.

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Re: Spoilers for Monday 20th November 2017.

Post by Graeme Cole » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:31 am

Countdown Team wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:52 am
The conundrum round is filmed with both contestants positioned in clear view of the camera, so it's relatively easy to see who's hand pressed first in these instances. We look back on the hard-drive and see that Graeme pressed first. Not ideal, but fair.
Thanks for clarifying. I take back the bit about it being a shocker of a decision, then.

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Re: Spoilers for Monday 20th November 2017.

Post by Bradley Horrocks » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:22 am

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:09 am
Elliott Mellor wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:23 am
Another point worth considering is indeed that Graeme was going to buzz in with a different answer, maybe say IMMIGRANT at first, which is what my tired self thought of first. Then after the mishap and he'd had time to digest it fully he realised it was MIGRATING, though I'd like to think this isn't the case.
I'd say this is unlikely given that his second press (after the clock had started) was probably less than a second after his first press and he was probably more likely to be thinking about why the buzzer wasn't working.
The buzz according to the clock was 1 second in and he said it confidently then.

I agree that it’s fair to give it to Graeme if he’s proven to buzz first. It’s unfair if another one was done and Beth won.

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Re: Spoilers for Monday 20th November 2017.

Post by Toby McDonald » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:19 pm

DOGVANE as a R4 beater.

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