Spoilers for Wednesday September 24th 2014 (S71 P52)

Discuss anything that happened in recent games. This is the place to post any words you got that beat Dictionary Corner, or numbers games that evaded Rachel.

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Jordan F
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Spoilers for Wednesday September 24th 2014 (S71 P52)

Post by Jordan F » Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:12 pm

Paul Worsley is on 6 wins. That alone will give him a decent chance of making the finals in December, but a 7th will help even further. Can he get it?

Join James..Laverty that is for the recap later.

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Re: Spoilers for Wednesday September 24th 2014 (S71 P52)

Post by Bradley Cates » Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:20 pm

ENDNOTE in R2
Sfumato soup

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Re: Spoilers for Wednesday September 24th 2014 (S71 P52)

Post by Tony Atkins » Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:33 pm

Bradley Cates wrote:ENDNOTE in R2
Was it TENONED?

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Re: Spoilers for Wednesday September 24th 2014 (S71 P52)

Post by Bradley Cates » Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:45 pm

RAILWAY in R10
Sfumato soup

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Re: Spoilers for Wednesday September 24th 2014 (S71 P52)

Post by Jack Worsley » Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:47 pm

RAZORED in round 11.

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Re: Spoilers for Wednesday September 24th 2014 (S71 P52)

Post by Gavin Chipper » Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:56 pm

Susie is talking about the strict rules for new words getting into the dictionary. These rules don't apply when a word makes good press of course.

Also if people can't communicate which weekend they mean, then they probably couldn't learn a new word. People can even use the date.

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Re: Spoilers for Wednesday September 24th 2014 (S71 P52)

Post by Tony Atkins » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:00 pm

Sorry to see Paul go, but currently number 4 seed he may be back. I guess he was feeling a little tired after lunch there,

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Re: Spoilers for Wednesday September 24th 2014 (S71 P52)

Post by Jojo Apollo » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:02 pm

Well done on your run, Paul. Some excellent quality there. 8-)

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Re: Spoilers for Wednesday September 24th 2014 (S71 P52)

Post by Jojo Apollo » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:12 pm

Tony Atkins wrote:Sorry to see Paul go, but currently number 4 seed he may be back. I guess he was feeling a little tired after lunch there,
It would be good to see the statistics on champs getting beaten/getting their lowest score on their sixth or seventh game during an octo-run. You do notice quite a few times a slight dip during these games, probably due to understandable fatigue.

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Re: Spoilers for Wednesday September 24th 2014 (S71 P52)

Post by Phyl Styles » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:23 pm

Six wins isn't half bad ;) though I can share your feelings of frustration at coming to a full stop at that point, Paul. Some excellent spots along the way and I do hope you stay in the top 8.

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Re: Spoilers for Wednesday September 24th 2014 (S71 P52)

Post by Fred Mumford » Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:07 pm

Jojo Apollo wrote:It would be good to see the statistics on champs getting beaten/getting their lowest score on their sixth or seventh game during an octo-run. You do notice quite a few times a slight dip during these games, probably due to understandable fatigue.
Page 10 of Ask Graeme includes an analysis of what percentage of players win their xth game. The percentages keep increasing up to game 8, there is no drop off.

Of course, this doesn't tell us whether players who win their 6th or 7th game play any worse than normal, and I don't know if filming schedules have always been the same.

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Re: Spoilers for Wednesday September 24th 2014 (S71 P52)

Post by Paul Worsley » Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:12 pm

Thanks for all the messages of support everyone. I don't think it was fatigue, so I'm not going to blame that. I think I always knew that I had at least one bad game in me. I enjoyed the run, and there's still a chance I'll make the finals, I suppose. I was really disappointed with my numbers games. It was MUCH harder under studio conditions, and once I'd messed a few rounds up in my first two games, I went into a panic each time a tricky, or even mildly tricky, numbers problem came out.

Good luck to all the apterites yet to play in this series!

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Re: Spoilers for Wednesday September 24th 2014 (S71 P52)

Post by Gavin Chipper » Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:16 pm

Unlucky Paul. You can still go on to win the series and also the 60th birthday special, which would put you ahead of Jack overall.

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Re: Spoilers for Wednesday September 24th 2014 (S71 P52)

Post by mark b davies » Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:36 pm

Well played Paul. Great set of games. Like you said on the show you were beaten by a good player today. Hope you get through to the finals.

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Re: Spoilers for Wednesday September 24th 2014 (S71 P52)

Post by Jojo Apollo » Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:41 pm

Fred Mumford wrote:
Jojo Apollo wrote:It would be good to see the statistics on champs getting beaten/getting their lowest score on their sixth or seventh game during an octo-run. You do notice quite a few times a slight dip during these games, probably due to understandable fatigue.
Page 10 of Ask Graeme includes an analysis of what percentage of players win their xth game. The percentages keep increasing up to game 8, there is no drop off.

Of course, this doesn't tell us whether players who win their 6th or 7th game play any worse than normal, and I don't know if filming schedules have always been the same.
Cheers Fred. :)

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Re: Spoilers for Wednesday September 24th 2014 (S71 P52)

Post by George Pryn » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:15 pm

Paul Worsley wrote:Thanks for all the messages of support everyone. I don't think it was fatigue, so I'm not going to blame that. I think I always knew that I had at least one bad game in me. I enjoyed the run, and there's still a chance I'll make the finals, I suppose. I was really disappointed with my numbers games. It was MUCH harder under studio conditions, and once I'd messed a few rounds up in my first two games, I went into a panic each time a tricky, or even mildly tricky, numbers problem came out.

Good luck to all the apterites yet to play in this series!
Great run Paul, I'd be surprised if you didn't make it to the finals.

Yeah numbers do seem harder in the studio compared to letters, I guess because numbers rounds are more down to actual concentration and problem solving, whereas quite a lot of letters games can simply be down to memory. I think everyone has a bad game in their run too, you were just unlucky that yours was against one of the better of your opponents.

Good luck for the finals!
(Presuming you make it)
(Which you probably will)

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Re: Spoilers for Wednesday September 24th 2014 (S71 P52)

Post by samir pilica » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:32 pm

Unlucky in the end. Really enjoyed watching your games. Hopefully you've done enough to get into the finals. Well done!

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Re: Spoilers for Wednesday September 24th 2014 (S71 P52)

Post by Jayne Wisniewski » Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:36 pm

Enjoyed watching your games Paul - hope you get to the finals :)

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Re: Spoilers for Wednesday September 24th 2014 (S71 P52)

Post by Mark Murray » Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:21 pm

2nd day in a row missed my first max by 1 point.. Paul..really well done 6 games is a great achievement and you should hopefully make the finals! I know what you mean the numbers game do feel so much harder in the studio

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Re: Spoilers for Wednesday September 24th 2014 (S71 P52)

Post by Dave Nicholson » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:14 am

Enjoyed your run Paul, congratulations on 6 wins, you've not really had any gimme's with opponents. I couldn't quite grasp before going on the show just how hard work a run of wins must be. 7 (and then 8) good games of countdown in a row is very difficult, there are some folk who make it look very easy but 6 wins is a cracking effort!

Really hope you make the finals, depending on your seeding there's people in there you could certainly beat on a good day.

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Re: Spoilers for Wednesday September 24th 2014 (S71 P52)

Post by Fred Mumford » Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:37 am

It's an obvious flaw of the seeding system that a player with more points from less games (and therefore a clearly superior player) gets seeded lower. Maybe that's one of the reasons why the finals rarely play out in line with the seedings.

It makes things more interesting though. I would be surprised if Paul doesn't make it, given the amount of prelims left. He would certainly be very unlucky if he missed out.

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Re: Spoilers for Wednesday September 24th 2014 (S71 P52)

Post by Gavin Chipper » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:59 am

Fred Mumford wrote:It's an obvious flaw of the seeding system that a player with more points from less games (and therefore a clearly superior player) gets seeded lower. Maybe that's one of the reasons why the finals rarely play out in line with the seedings.
Wins over points came in as a result of series 37 I think when Ray McPhie was an octochamp and number 2 seed, whereas Kate Surtees only won seven but was seeded number 1. That's slightly different though because Kate still played as many games as Ray to score a handful of points more.

I always think it's weird when they change the rules after things like this though. Surely they must have known it could have happened. On the series 38 wiki page it says that Richard said the change was being brought in because they were going from 3-month to 6-month series. That, however, makes no sense. The wiki page is also wrong since it says players are sorted by points, but it's not easily editable. There's some stuff about it not being "officially implemented" until series 39 because it didn't come up until then, but that's not relevant. A rule is a rule regardless of whether it gets used.

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Re: Spoilers for Wednesday September 24th 2014 (S71 P52)

Post by Fred Mumford » Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:29 pm

I'm going to have a go at working out the Series 2 seedings methodology. I reckon there could be a Fields Medal in it.

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Re: Spoilers for Wednesday September 24th 2014 (S71 P52)

Post by Gavin Chipper » Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:09 pm

Fred Mumford wrote:I'm going to have a go at working out the Series 2 seedings methodology. I reckon there could be a Fields Medal in it.
Here and here are the two most relevant links. The wiki version doesn't give as much relevant information, including that the scores only include winning and drawing games and that Philip Nelkon's total also includes a draw as well as two wins, and also that there are other players on one win that by the looks of things should have been above some that made it in.

Anyway, it seems to me that anyone with three or more wins/draws is ranked by average score in these games. Those on two wins are ranked by total score, and the top player on one win as well. That accounts for the first 13 seeds. It's possible that Geoffrey Weeks was simply unavailable so not included as the 14th seed. 14 and 15 then make sense based on total score. David Myerscough might have then just been included as a wildcard as the highest scoring loser as there were 16 seeds, which was way too many anyway and enough to break with the usual method.

Edit - Except for some unknown reason Bobbie Bennett is ahead of Joan Ross. If you include losing scores as well, it makes sense, but then it would also put Ingram Wilcox ahead of Joan Ross.

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