CoC XIII Discussion Thread

Richard Brittain · Post by **Richard Brittain** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:38 pm

This thread is intended for discussion of the next Championship of Champions, including predictions for the starting 16, reasoning and general detailed analytical theorisation and speculation. Hopefully, there will be lots of statistical input from both Martin Gardner and Gevin-Gavin.

Richard Brittain · Post by **Richard Brittain** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:46 pm

The following are probably definite invites:

Craig Beevers
David O'Donnell
Nick Wainwright
Richard Brittain
Jon Corby

Highly likely:

Anita Freeland
Aaron Webber
Jeffrey Hansford
Steven Briers
Richard Priest
Jonathan Coles

Quite probable:

Tony Warren
James Hurrell (although he only made the QFs, looked a really good player and scored 838 in prelim rounds)

Possibles:

All the other semi-finalists, plus Amey Deshpande (only made the QFs in his series, but he does have history and importance in the world of Countdown, is a legend and a major player, so don't rule him out)

Plus, 2 or 3 from the next series.

Jon O'Neill · Post by **Jon O'Neill** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:08 pm

"Probably definite"? Anyway, as long as Amey Deshpande is invited for purely sentimental reasons, I will be satisfied. Otherwise, I'm never watching Countdown again. Although I did say that about Joseph Bolas in the last CoC, and I went back on my word that time. Who knows?

James Hurrell · Post by **James Hurrell** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:15 pm

Given that 5 series will make the 16 finalists; and I understand that Jon Corby from S54 has been given a spot(??) it would make sense to have 3 from each series (though won't necessarily give the strongest 16). Anyway: -

S55: -

Richard Brittain - Winner
Tony Warren - Finalist
Steven Briers - Series No. 1 seed

S56: -

Nick Wainwright - Winner
Anita Freeland - Finalist
Aaron Webber - Series No. 1 seed

S57: -

Craig Beevers - Winner
Jeffery Hansford - Finalist (though whether he is asked back is up for debate)
Steve Baines - Best average of semi finalists (and thoroughly good guy)

S58: -

David O'Donnell - Winner
Richard Priest - Finalist
Jonathan Coles - Best average of semi finalists (pushed DoD all the way)

S59 - 3 players

If Jeffery isn't asked back I would be more than happy to step in as another from S57

Damian E · Post by **Damian E** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:31 pm

Blimey - this is good stuff. Youv'e all put far more thought into it than i have

James Hurrell · Post by **James Hurrell** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:42 pm

Or just base it on highest average scores and then I might be able to stake a claim!

Ben Wilson · Post by **Ben Wilson** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:04 pm

James Hurrell wrote:Given that 5 series will make the 16 finalists; and I understand that Jon Corby from S54 has been given a spot(??) it would make sense to have 3 from each series (though won't necessarily give the strongest 16). Anyway: -

S55: -

Richard Brittain - Winner
Tony Warren - Finalist
Steven Briers - Series No. 1 seed

S56: -

Nick Wainwright - Winner
Anita Freeland - Finalist
Aaron Webber - Series No. 1 seed

S57: -

Craig Beevers - Winner
Jeffery Hansford - Finalist (though whether he is asked back is up for debate)
Steve Baines - Best average of semi finalists (and thoroughly good guy)

S58: -

David O'Donnell - Winner
Richard Priest - Finalist
Jonathan Coles - Best average of semi finalists (pushed DoD all the way)

S59 - 3 players

If Jeffery isn't asked back I would be more than happy to step in as another from S57

The brilliant thing is James, my predictions would be exactly the same as yours only I'd put you in place of Hansford.

David O'Donnell · Post by **David O'Donnell** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:42 am

I think that Jeffrey-Gate complicates the issue. If he isn't invited then the only fair option may be to only have one finalist from series 57 which mean there are more wild card entrants from the other series. Assuming there are 3 from series 58 I think it's clear that Richard and I are there as finalists and Jonathan Coles will be the third - not only a really nice guy but he gave me a helluva scare

I was mentally preparing myself for defeat prior to the conundrum being revealed.

Julian Fell · Post by **Julian Fell** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:44 am

I'd be massively surprised if Hansford wasn't invited back David - I don't really think Damian has much choice here

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:14 am

Julian wrote:I'd be massively surprised if Hansford wasn't invited back

£10 says no Hansford at CoC. Put your money where your mouth is!

Benji Hanks · Post by **Benji Hanks** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:41 pm

I still say you need a bit more colour.... and a whipping boy

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:36 pm

Benji Hanks wrote:I still say you need a bit more colour.... and a whipping boy

I extend the bet to you too, then.

Richard Brittain · Post by **Richard Brittain** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:44 pm

Yeah, I'd say Benji Hanks and Mikey Lear both have an outside chance of making it due to their charisma and youth, although it's quite unlikely given the competition for places.

As for Hansford, I don't know the full facts, but if it's true that he definitely cheated then they certainly don't have to invite him back. There might be a sensationalist story about him in the Sun if he claims disability discrimination or something, but no-one will actually take that seriously. I'm not sure if there was any real proof that he did cheat during his run, but anecdotal evidence from contestants who faced him appears to suggest that there was. So, I guess we'll just have to wait and find out in 6 months' time.

James Hurrell · Post by **James Hurrell** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:26 pm

Richard - you just have to ask anyone involved in S57 finals. There was a definite 'attempt' to cheat, which was quashed and handled very well by the Production Team, but this aside, I did find him quite a character and he definitely added to the shows he appeared on. Based on what I experienced overall though, if it was up to me I wouldn't have him back.

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:18 pm

16 from 5 series would probably have to be one of the most generous for the contestants. I think the one that Natascha Kearsey won might have been even more generous but I can't be bothered to check right now.

Damian E wrote:Blimey - this is good stuff. Youv'e all put far more thought into it than i have

Does that mean you'll let us decide the line-up?

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:24 pm

James Hurrell wrote: Or just base it on highest average scores and then I might be able to stake a claim!

Well, you predicted Steven Briers on scores alone, and with three per series I'd put you above Steve Baines. So I'd agree with you and Ben Wilson except it's Steve Baines that loses out and both you and Hansford make it.

I would also say though that if the next series is particularly strong (or weak) I wouldn't necessarily rigidly stick to three per series. It could be four or two in certain cases. At the moment though I don't think it's crying out for it.

Damian E · Post by **Damian E** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:51 am

If anyone knows the whereabouts of Nick Wainwright then i'd be grateful for a PM.

Have tried contacting him at last known, but nothing so far. Just hoping that perhaps he's a member on here or some of you might have contact via those COLOSTOMY tournaments that are held.

Ta
Damian

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:57 pm

I've sent him a message on Facebook, that might work.

Damian E · Post by **Damian E** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:17 pm

Thanks Charlie.

That should do the trick.

D

Jon O'Neill · Post by **Jon O'Neill** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:01 pm

I did the same thing, before Charlie. Can I come to watch the CoC recorded now?

Damian E · Post by **Damian E** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:49 pm

Can I come to watch the CoC recorded now?

If you meant 'being' recorded, then yeah sure you can.

If you meant being recorded now, then i'm at home having a beer, so you can't.

Chris Corby · Post by **Chris Corby** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:12 pm

Damian E wrote: Just hoping that perhaps he's a member on here or some of you might have contact via those COLOSTOMY tournaments that are held.

Ta
Damian

Yeah, I entered one of those tournaments. Thought I had it in the bag but in the end was shite.

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:01 pm

James Hurrell wrote:Richard - you just have to ask anyone involved in S57 finals. There was a definite 'attempt' to cheat, which was quashed and handled very well by the Production Team, but this aside, I did find him quite a character and he definitely added to the shows he appeared on. Based on what I experienced overall though, if it was up to me I wouldn't have him back.

I heard this as a rumour, that he'd got a number game wrong and tried to 'steal' his opponent's numbers solution to get 10 points. As I said before, he came across as likeable but how can you invite someone back once they've attempted to cheat?

Martin

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:21 pm

Martin Gardner wrote:I heard this as a rumour, that he'd got a number game wrong and tried to 'steal' his opponent's numbers solution to get 10 points. As I said before, he came across as likeable but how can you invite someone back once they've attempted to cheat?

Martin

Well they "invited him back" for the final given that this was a semi-final (I think). Anyway, he might have learnt his lesson. I'm not one that thinks someone should necessarily be condemned as a baddie forever for something they've done in the past, especially something of this level of magnitude.

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:22 pm

Gevin-Gavin wrote:Well they "invited him back" for the final given that this was a semi-final (I think). Anyway, he might have learnt his lesson. I'm not one that thinks someone should necessarily be condemned as a baddie forever for something they've done in the past, especially something of this level of magnitude.

So are any of you kids going to take my bet, or are you all talk?

JimBentley · Post by **JimBentley** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:30 pm

Charlie Reams wrote:
Gevin-Gavin wrote:Well they "invited him back" for the final given that this was a semi-final (I think). Anyway, he might have learnt his lesson. I'm not one that thinks someone should necessarily be condemned as a baddie forever for something they've done in the past, especially something of this level of magnitude.
So are any of you kids going to take my bet, or are you all talk?

I'd be amazed if he's invited back, so can't take up your bet, Charlie. If I was Damian - and I'm not - I'd "forget" to invite him.

Now, if you feel willing to extend the current odds (to maybe 3/1, or 5/2 at a bare minimum) I might be tempted.

Julian Fell · Post by **Julian Fell** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:03 am

I'm all talk Charlie (and I'm not going to bet against somebody who gets 97% in a Cambridge exam

)... still don't see how you and Jim can be so confident though. Even if Damian 'forgot' to invite Hansford, Hansford wouldn't forget that he was supposed to be invited, would he? And there'd be an almighty fuss.

Anyway Jim I thought you liked Hansford?

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:32 pm

I like him too, but I suspect that the purpose of making CoC an "invitation" event is to exclude problematic players like JH and replace them with "fans' favourites" like Benji Hanks. I'm sure we could debate the fairness of this process, but it is what it is.

Damian E · Post by **Damian E** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:38 pm

Oh go on, debate it.

It makes for great reading.

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:18 pm

Charlie Reams wrote:So are any of you kids going to take my bet, or are you all talk?

But then I'd need to give you my address to send me the cheque and then you might stalk me.

JimBentley · Post by **JimBentley** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:05 pm

Julian wrote:Anyway Jim I thought you liked Hansford?

Oh, I did, from the safety of my seat at home, he was very entertaining. In real life, without the benefit of editing, he's probably not. If you have the choice of who to invite back - and it is an invitational competition, the line-up is up to the producers and has nothing to do with who did best - then why not invite someone personable and non-cheaty like James H or Steve Baines, who are pretty much guaranteed to cause no headaches? I know what I'd do.

Yes, I would invite Amey Deshpande

Kirk Bevins · Post by **Kirk Bevins** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:26 pm

James Hurrell wrote: S58: -

David O'Donnell - Winner
Richard Priest - Finalist
Jonathan Coles - Best average of semi finalists (pushed DoD all the way)

Oh damn the finals took place last month didn't they and I forgot to watch them! Why did nobody remind me on MSN?

Well done David. I'm just watching them on 4oD now.

Dan Vanniasingham · Post by **Dan Vanniasingham** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:50 am

Kirk Bevins wrote:Oh damn the finals took place last month didn't they and I forgot to watch them! Why did nobody remind me on MSN?

I'll change my name to 'Kirk - The Series Finals Have Started' in mid-late December so this can be avoided next time.

James Hurrell · Post by **James Hurrell** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:09 am

Sorry Kirk - didn't even think of that as a spoiler!! Thought everyone would have known that by now.

James Hurrell · Post by **James Hurrell** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:35 am

Just noticed this thread was started the day after the final. Probably not the best idea without putting 'spoiler' on it.

Kirk Bevins · Post by **Kirk Bevins** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:09 pm

James Hurrell wrote:Sorry Kirk - didn't even think of that as a spoiler!! Thought everyone would have known that by now.

Pah, don't be silly. It reminded me to go and watch them on 4oD! I knew the finals are in June and December but was so busy I had forgotten June had passed and it was now July! Also, if I wanted to watch the finals without knowing the results, I shouldn't come on the forum! I think Damian once likened it to if you don't want to know the football results from last night, don't turn to the back of the newspaper! So thanks for reminding me

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:27 pm

Hansford confirmed?

http://www.c4countdown.co.uk/viewtopic. ... =60#p10417

Damian E wrote:Perhaps the thought of Richard Brittain and Jeffrey Hansford was enough to see both presenters off.

Damian E · Post by **Damian E** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:31 pm

I'm not sure. What makes you think he's a catholic?

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:14 pm

Damian E wrote:I'm not sure. What makes you think he's a catholic?

Good, but I preferred your "Zed?" joke.

Ian Volante · Post by **Ian Volante** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:55 pm

Aye, definitely get Amey back, it balances my annoyance at losing to him with the excuse of having bean beating by a CoC participant...

Joseph Bolas · Post by **Joseph Bolas** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:42 pm

Ian Volante wrote:Aye, definitely get Amey back, it balances my annoyance at losing to him with the excuse of having bean beating by a CoC participant...

Doesn't it annoy you though, that you got beaten by Amey on his second chance at becoming an Octochamp, whereas if you played against someone else you might've become an eventual Octochamp, with only one appearance?

Jon Corby · Post by **Jon Corby** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:11 am

Joseph Bolas wrote:Doesn't it annoy you though, that you got beaten by Amey on his second chance at becoming an Octochamp, whereas if you played against someone else you might've become an eventual Octochamp, with only one appearance?

That's a little hypocritical of somebody desperate for a second chance themselves, isn't it?

Joseph Bolas · Post by **Joseph Bolas** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:45 am

Jon Corby wrote:
Joseph Bolas wrote:Doesn't it annoy you though, that you got beaten by Amey on his second chance at becoming an Octochamp, whereas if you played against someone else you might've become an eventual Octochamp, with only one appearance?
That's a little hypocritical of somebody desperate for a second chance themselves, isn't it?

It would be if I was to play a prelim game, but I would like a one-off special game, or like I suggested to Damian, do a debut-loser tournament, that way I would be playing against someone who has already been on then I don't stop anyone on their first attempt at becoming an Octochamp.

DaveC · Post by **DaveC** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:46 pm

I wonder are there recording dates for the CoC yet?

Might be worth a visit. When a previous CoC was announced I got tickets for 5 of us... for 10th May 2005. Of course being immediately after series 53 we know what happened there.

DC

Ian Volante · Post by **Ian Volante** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:44 pm

Joseph Bolas wrote:
Ian Volante wrote:Aye, definitely get Amey back, it balances my annoyance at losing to him with the excuse of having been beating by a CoC participant...
Doesn't it annoy you though, that you got beaten by Amey on his second chance at becoming an Octochamp, whereas if you played against someone else you might've become an eventual Octochamp, with only one appearance?

Well that's also a slightly tedious aspect to the whole sordid affair. Still doesn't gloss over that I was just a bit kack that day.

Joseph Bolas · Post by **Joseph Bolas** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:26 am

Ian Volante wrote:
Joseph Bolas wrote:
Ian Volante wrote:Aye, definitely get Amey back, it balances my annoyance at losing to him with the excuse of having been beating by a CoC participant...
Doesn't it annoy you though, that you got beaten by Amey on his second chance at becoming an Octochamp, whereas if you played against someone else you might've become an eventual Octochamp, with only one appearance?
Well that's also a slightly tedious aspect to the whole sordid affair. Still doesn't gloss over that I was just a bit kack that day.

By the end of the game it went down to a crucial conundrum and unfortunately, Amey got TIMETABLE in 3 seconds to win the game. It still might've gone to a crucial conundrum, if you had a different opponent and you might've got TIMETABLE before them, you never know.

Damian E · Post by **Damian E** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:13 pm

Let it go, Joseph.

Amey was a kid when he first played, then he came back as an adult.

You first played as an adult, but cannot come back as a kid, unless of course we play Goatdown and you attach synthetic teats to your midriff.

Benji Hanks · Post by **Benji Hanks** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:05 pm

certainly is looking like my chances of being invited back as "a young'un" are dwindling thanks to Kai.... dam him.

David von Geyer · Post by **David von Geyer** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:09 pm

Hi everyone and particularly to other series 57 finalists and to Damian E. 'Tis DvG victim of Jeffrey H - I trust that FUNDABLE will make it into the Oxford dictionary at some juncture. Only those who were present during filming know what JH was really like and while you can make allowances for his condition, he came close to being disqualified. I never achieved very high scores, but looking through some of the spoilers, it was virtually impossible to get much higher scores as the letters just were not there - it's fair to say that today's game had some good letters rounds.

On another subject (maybe I should open this as a new thread) I'm recruiting a team of Countdowners for a crack at the Eggheads - but you do need to be a good quizzer. I contacted several of the other series 57 finalists and most of them bowed out -they were great Countdowners, but not such great quizzers. The only person who indicated that he would participate is Steve Baines so if you are interested please get in touch.

Ian Volante · Post by **Ian Volante** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:32 pm

Well David, as a veteran of 15 to 1, University Challenge and Mastermind (not broadcast yet), I'm happy to join your Eggheads!

Paul Howe · Post by **Paul Howe** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:44 pm

Hi David, really enjoyed your comments on the youtube vid of your game. I bet Jeffrey's got a good head for trivia

On the thread topic, I assume with the changing of the guard the CofC won't be happening for a while, would be a strange way to ease the new presenters in.

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:45 pm

Paul Howe wrote:Hi David, really enjoyed your comments on the youtube vid of your game. I bet Jeffrey's got a good head for trivia

On the thread topic, I assume with the changing of the guard the CofC won't be happening for a while, would be a strange way to ease the new presenters in.

I was looking forward to that. Is it anything you've heard or just what you reckon? Might they not get the CofC finished before the end of the year as well and include in with the old presenters?

Jon Corby · Post by **Jon Corby** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:48 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:I was looking forward to that.

You and me both mate

Paul Howe · Post by **Paul Howe** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:18 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote: I was looking forward to that. Is it anything you've heard or just what you reckon? Might they not get the CofC finished before the end of the year as well and include in with the old presenters?

Nah, just idle speculation. I reckon we'd have heard something if they were going to do one with Des and Carol still in place though.

Julian Fell · Post by **Julian Fell** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:38 am

Yeah I'd be interested to know what the plans are for the show now - I'm assuming like Paul that the CofC will be put off, but haven't heard anything concrete. And will there be a big break between the end of series 59 and the start of the first post-Carol series, or just the usual two or three weeks?

If anyone knows anything definite please let us know!

Damian E · Post by **Damian E** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:30 pm

C of C, providing we get the participants, WILL be recorded in late November 2008 - and this WILL be the first shows with the new presenters, and will be shown in January 09. Once our recording dates are confirmed, all invitees will be notified immediately.

Paul H, am interested to know why this is a strange way to ease in new presenters? We all thought the complete opposite at our end. All the contestants are experienced, less nerves, know what they are doing, and need far less hand-holding by the presenter than would be if they were first-timers. Plus, the standard of the game is very high, so the game tends to take over and dominate, giving the 2 new presenters time to find their feet. Just wondered what it is that makes you think the opposite.

Paul Howe · Post by **Paul Howe** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:17 pm

Damian E wrote:
Paul H, am interested to know why this is a strange way to ease in new presenters? We all thought the complete opposite at our end. All the contestants are experienced, less nerves, know what they are doing, and need far less hand-holding by the presenter than would be if they were first-timers. Plus, the standard of the game is very high, so the game tends to take over and dominate, giving the 2 new presenters time to find their feet. Just wondered what it is that makes you think the opposite.

Damian E, I don't really think that, I was just fishing for info and picked the first excuse I could think of to justify my negativity, sorry if I caused any undue consternation. Absolutely delighted to hear there's a new CofC coming up, looking forward to it already. I'm sure the new presenters will take to it like fish to water, and if it's not too soppy I'd like to wish you and everyone associated with the programme continued success with making this wonderful show for us to be obsessed with.

Damian E · Post by **Damian E** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:56 pm

Actually, its FAR too soppy. Will get in touch asap re C of C.

Paul Howe · Post by **Paul Howe** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:02 pm

Damian E wrote:Actually, its FAR too soppy. Will get in touch asap re C of C.

Haha, fair enough. Hey, you're not getting in touch with ME about the CofC are you? Because that would be a whole new way to piss Bolas off. Just saying.

Ben Wilson · Post by **Ben Wilson** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:25 pm

Paul Howe wrote:
Damian E wrote:Actually, its FAR too soppy. Will get in touch asap re C of C.
Haha, fair enough. Hey, you're not getting in touch with ME about the CofC are you? Because that would be a whole new way to piss Bolas off. Just saying.

Supreme Championship II, anyone?