Dictionary Revisal

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Joseph Bolas
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Dictionary Revisal

Post by Joseph Bolas » Thu May 29, 2008 4:21 pm

I am currently producing word lists focusing on certain prefixes, suffixes and hooks etc (using the ODE of course) as a study aid for when I go to these CO-events. How often though is the ODE revised/updated on Countdown and is an update/revisal of the ODE around the corner, that anyone may know of?

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Damian E
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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by Damian E » Fri May 30, 2008 6:07 pm

We currently used the revised 2nd edition - so i guess that means there have been 2 or 3 updates since it first hit the scene.

Not sure when another one it due - but its not updated for the benefit of Countdown, it goes way beyond that.

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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by Jason Larsen » Fri May 30, 2008 6:13 pm

Joseph, your hard work makes me smile!

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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by Joseph Bolas » Fri May 30, 2008 6:41 pm

Damian E wrote:We currently used the revised 2nd edition - so i guess that means there have been 2 or 3 updates since it first hit the scene.

Not sure when another one it due - but its not updated for the benefit of Countdown, it goes way beyond that.
I know its not updated just for Countdown but I wasn't sure if there was like stages when you change the dictionary or something like that :oops:

EDIT: Knowing my luck, too as soon as I have completed all my words lists, I will probably need to go through them all and have to delete alot of words :lol:
Last edited by Joseph Bolas on Fri May 30, 2008 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by Jason Larsen » Fri May 30, 2008 6:43 pm

Very nice, Joseph!

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Joseph Bolas
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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by Joseph Bolas » Fri May 30, 2008 7:02 pm

Jason Larsen wrote:Very nice, Joseph!
Sorry JaLa :D, but I don't get what you mean by very nice :oops:

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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by JimBentley » Fri May 30, 2008 7:28 pm

Joseph Bolas wrote:
Jason Larsen wrote:Very nice, Joseph!
Sorry JaLa :D, but I don't get what you mean by very nice :oops:
JaCu? Now JaLa? And HoSo? Good thing Pete Docherty doesn't post here, eh?
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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by M. George Quinn » Fri May 30, 2008 7:49 pm

Was that some kind of jibe?
Last edited by M. George Quinn on Sat May 31, 2008 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by JimBentley » Fri May 30, 2008 8:01 pm

:D , MGeQu.
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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by Jason Larsen » Fri May 30, 2008 8:20 pm

That's good work, Joseph!

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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by Joseph Bolas » Fri May 30, 2008 9:45 pm

JaLa wrote:That's good work, Joseph!
Thank you JaLa :D

So far I have the following lists:

1. Words ending in -ISE
2. Words ending in -IZE
3. Words beginning with FORE-
4. Words beginning with OVER-
5. Words beginning with UNDER-
6. Words that can begin with both OVER- and UNDER-

I have yet to do a word list with words that can be spelt with both -ISE and -IZE, words that can be preceded by RE- and words that one letter can be added either to the front of or the end of, to make another word (eg MONSTERA).

The RE- list will be the toughest to do IMO, as there are 2332 words that begin with RE and I have to filter out words that can be preceded by RE, but don't give the RE- sound (eg READ) and also groups of letters that aren't words (eg RELUCTANT). It should be fun :lol:.

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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by Jason Larsen » Fri May 30, 2008 11:55 pm

I hope to see this thread get longer.

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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by Dan Vanniasingham » Sat May 31, 2008 2:37 am

Joseph Bolas wrote:
JaLa wrote:That's good work, Joseph!
Thank you JaLa :D
You actually edited his quoted name?! Well, your masterplan has paid dividends - I can't take it any more! Please name your price on what it will take for you to stop giving people ridiculous nicknames. Don't get too greedy though - it may work out cheaper for me to visit Liverpool and bludgeon you with the ODE2r. :D

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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by Joseph Bolas » Sat May 31, 2008 11:32 am

Dan Vanniasingham wrote:
Joseph Bolas wrote:
JaLa wrote:That's good work, Joseph!
Thank you JaLa :D
You actually edited his quoted name?! Well, your masterplan has paid dividends - I can't take it any more!
To alter the name of the quote is probably pshing it a bit :oops:

I wouldn't have classed it as a masterplan though, its just my way of trying to be humourous :lol:
Dan Vanniasingham wrote:Please name your price on what it will take for you to stop giving people ridiculous nicknames. Don't get too greedy though - it may work out cheaper for me to visit Liverpool and bludgeon you with the ODE2r. :D
You would need to line up behind David and Jono :D (the toilet flushing :lol:)

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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by Jason Larsen » Sat May 31, 2008 3:06 pm

You are all funny!

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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by Julian Fell » Sat May 31, 2008 11:22 pm

Joseph Bolas wrote:I am currently producing word lists focusing on certain prefixes, suffixes and hooks etc (using the ODE of course) as a study aid for when I go to these CO-events. How often though is the ODE revised/updated on Countdown and is an update/revisal of the ODE around the corner, that anyone may know of?
I was thinking about when the next edition of the ODE might be due as well (though I'm not making word lists...) and I researched the publication dates of the three editions so far:

NODE (1st edition): 1 September 1998
ODE (2nd edition): 21 August 2003
ODE (2nd edition revised): 11 August 2005

... which suggests a third edition might well be out this summer / autumn. Only OUP will know, though!

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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by Joseph Bolas » Sat May 31, 2008 11:32 pm

Julian wrote:
Joseph Bolas wrote:I am currently producing word lists focusing on certain prefixes, suffixes and hooks etc (using the ODE of course) as a study aid for when I go to these CO-events. How often though is the ODE revised/updated on Countdown and is an update/revisal of the ODE around the corner, that anyone may know of?
I was thinking about when the next edition of the ODE might be due as well (though I'm not making word lists...) and I researched the publication dates of the three editions so far:

NODE (1st edition): 1 September 1998
ODE (2nd edition): 21 August 2003
ODE (2nd edition revised): 11 August 2005

... which suggests a third edition might well be out this summer / autumn. Only OUP will know, though!
I do have this feeling that as soon as I have got all the word lists I want to study for these CO-Events with, that a new dictionary will come out and alot of the words I have won't be allowed and there will be alot of new words too to add :lol:.

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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by Ben Wilson » Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:48 pm

Joseph Bolas wrote:
Julian wrote:
Joseph Bolas wrote:I am currently producing word lists focusing on certain prefixes, suffixes and hooks etc (using the ODE of course) as a study aid for when I go to these CO-events. How often though is the ODE revised/updated on Countdown and is an update/revisal of the ODE around the corner, that anyone may know of?
I was thinking about when the next edition of the ODE might be due as well (though I'm not making word lists...) and I researched the publication dates of the three editions so far:

NODE (1st edition): 1 September 1998
ODE (2nd edition): 21 August 2003
ODE (2nd edition revised): 11 August 2005

... which suggests a third edition might well be out this summer / autumn. Only OUP will know, though!
I do have this feeling that as soon as I have got all the word lists I want to study for these CO-Events with, that a new dictionary will come out and alot of the words I have won't be allowed and there will be alot of new words too to add :lol:.
To be fair Joseph, you're taking it a hell of a lot better than most Scrabblers would. ;)

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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by Joseph Bolas » Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:14 pm

Ben Wilson wrote:
Joseph Bolas wrote:I do have this feeling that as soon as I have got all the word lists I want to study for these CO-Events with, that a new dictionary will come out and alot of the words I have won't be allowed and there will be alot of new words too to add :lol:.
To be fair Joseph, you're taking it a hell of a lot better than most Scrabblers would. ;)
Are you making your own Scrabble book Ben? I thought thats what those pritt-stick updates were refering to but I wasn't sure. I would do a scrabble one, but I believe the dictionary changes all the time, so I am going to stick with Countdown :D.

If I have worked this out right though, so far my 6 word lists focus on 1,192 words out of apporximately 82,000 which is no more than 1.5% of the entire word list :lol: I will need to do a helluva lot more lists :lol:

I think once I have done my RE-lists and also my 1-letter hook lists, which is bound to use up quite alot of the words and will take quite some time to compile, then it might be more irritable if the dictionary is updated :lol:

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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by Ben Wilson » Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:00 pm

Joseph Bolas wrote:
Ben Wilson wrote:
Joseph Bolas wrote:I do have this feeling that as soon as I have got all the word lists I want to study for these CO-Events with, that a new dictionary will come out and alot of the words I have won't be allowed and there will be alot of new words too to add :lol:.
To be fair Joseph, you're taking it a hell of a lot better than most Scrabblers would. ;)
Are you making your own Scrabble book Ben? I thought thats what those pritt-stick updates were refering to but I wasn't sure. I would do a scrabble one, but I believe the dictionary changes all the time, so I am going to stick with Countdown :D.

If I have worked this out right though, so far my 6 word lists focus on 1,192 words out of apporximately 82,000 which is no more than 1.5% of the entire word list :lol: I will need to do a helluva lot more lists :lol:

I think once I have done my RE-lists and also my 1-letter hook lists, which is bound to use up quite alot of the words and will take quite some time to compile, then it might be more irritable if the dictionary is updated :lol:
Oh yes, that's what the Pritt-Stick was about. 132 pages and counting so far, and I'll exhaust many highlighters before that project's done, believe you me.

As for dictionary changes, the change in 2006 was the first one since 2001, so read into that what you will. :)

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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by Joseph Bolas » Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:08 am

Ben Wilson wrote:Oh yes, that's what the Pritt-Stick was about. 132 pages and counting so far, and I'll exhaust many highlighters before that project's done, believe you me.

As for dictionary changes, the change in 2006 was the first one since 2001, so read into that what you will. :)
I definitely don't have that many pages yet :lol: I am actually still unsure of what to include in this.

So far I am thinking of having the following sections in it:

A-Z Word Lists
1-Letter Front Hooks
1-Letter End Hooks
U-less 'Q' Words
Words Beginning With FORE-
Words Beginning With RE-
Words Beginning With OVER-
Words Beginning With UNDER-
Words That Begin With Both OVER- & UNDER-
Words Ending In -IZE
Words Ending In -ISE
Words That End In Both -ISE & -IZE
Words Ending In -LESS
Words Ending In -NESS
Words Ending In -MAN
Words Ending In -MEN
Words That End In Both -MAN & -MEN
Singular Words, With No Plural Form
Plural Words, With No Singular Form
Times Tables From 11 - 99
Number Factors From 101 - 999

There is probably loads more lists/tables I could do. I just hope I complete this though as unfortunately I do tend to have a short attention span :lol: :oops:.

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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by Joseph Bolas » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:01 pm

I sent an email off a few weeks ago to the OUP asking about revisals and I got a reply saying:
Kate (OUP Customer Support) wrote:Unfortunately, Oxford University Press is not affiliated with Countdown and does not know what Countdown’s plans are for future dictionary usage.
So whom would I need to speak to then regarding a revisal of the dictionary that is used on Countdown.

I just don't want to go to the trouble of trying to create a dictionary as a study aid just to find out there are going to be loads of mistakes (eg words need omitting and submitting etc).

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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by Gavin Chipper » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:50 pm

Joseph Bolas wrote:I sent an email off a few weeks ago to the OUP asking about revisals and I got a reply saying:
Kate (OUP Customer Support) wrote:Unfortunately, Oxford University Press is not affiliated with Countdown and does not know what Countdown’s plans are for future dictionary usage.
So whom would I need to speak to then regarding a revisal of the dictionary that is used on Countdown.

I just don't want to go to the trouble of trying to create a dictionary as a study aid just to find out there are going to be loads of mistakes (eg words need omitting and submitting etc).
Ask Damian what Countdown's future plans are regarding dictionaries. If it involves using the latest updates of Oxford dictionaries, then ask OUP about their dictionaries without mentioning Countdown.

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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by Joseph Bolas » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:05 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:Ask Damian what Countdown's future plans are regarding dictionaries. If it involves using the latest updates of Oxford dictionaries, then ask OUP about their dictionaries without mentioning Countdown.
Thank you for the sugestion, but Damian actually replied to my initial question (when I started the thread) saying:
Not sure when another one is due - but its not updated for the benefit of Countdown, it goes way beyond that.
So, I am not sure who that leaves to ask.

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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by Damian E » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:40 pm

Joseph, what exactly is your problem with the ODE?

I can't be arsed reading all the posts, so if you can fill me in then please do. If its about compiling word lists as study aids for the CO-events, then how can i help?

Spit it out man.......

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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by Joseph Bolas » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:23 pm

Damian E wrote:Joseph, what exactly is your problem with the ODE?

I can't be arsed reading all the posts, so if you can fill me in then please do. If its about compiling word lists as study aids for the CO-events, then how can i help?

Spit it out man.......
Oh no, I didn't say I had a problem with the ODE.

All I was asking was that, if the ODE was going to bring out a 3rd edition of their dictionary, say for example, and Countdown then updated to that dictionary, thus meaning that there would be more words allowed on Countdown, would that be possible to find out (if there was an update due and also what words would be added etc).

If that makes sense.

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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by Damian E » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:36 pm

Ahh i get you now.

Well i have no idea what OUP intend to do, i don't really ask to be honest. If they revise it, then fine - i'll ask them for a list of new inclusions / deletions and will post them on here, if and when that happens. Have not heard anything from them with regard to future changes, so i can only imagine there is nothing imminent.

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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by Joseph Bolas » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:19 pm

Damian E wrote:Ahh i get you now.

Well i have no idea what OUP intend to do, i don't really ask to be honest. If they revise it, then fine - i'll ask them for a list of new inclusions / deletions and will post them on here, if and when that happens. Have not heard anything from them with regard to future changes, so i can only imagine there is nothing imminent.
Yes, if you find out something, do please let us know :).

When Kate replied to my query, she included the link http://www.oed.com/news/updates/ which mentions some updates to the online dictionary, so they might publish an new ODE with these updates in the future. Accoring to the June '08 revisions update though, it looks like they are currently revising the 'R' section at the moment, so it looks like it will be quite some time before they get to 'Z' :).

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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by L'oisleatch McGraw » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:32 am

I'm interested in all the versions of the dictionary that have been used on Countdown since the inception of the TV show up to modern times.

Around 12 years ago, we got some useful info from Julian :
Julian Fell wrote:
Sat May 31, 2008 11:22 pm
NODE (1st edition): 1 September 1998
ODE (2nd edition): 21 August 2003
ODE (2nd edition revised): 11 August 2005
According to OED's website, they have been doing quarterly updates since the ODO was founded in the year 2000...

...however, I doubt those updates applied to word adjudication on CD, until the show made the switch to the online version.


That leads to a few questions:-
1. Which dictionaries were the authority in the 1982-1998 period?
2. When did Countdown switch to using ODO?
3. Was there a new edition of the paper ODE that was used on Countdown at any point between 2005 and the switch to ODO?
4. These days, is there a gap between the publication of a quarterly dictionary update, and the implementation of said update for the purposes of word adjudication on the show? If so, approx how much of a gap?
5. Is there a list comparing how many 2-9 letter words there have been in the various incarnations of the OED / ODO?

Any help appreciated.
Last edited by L'oisleatch McGraw on Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by Jon O'Neill » Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:35 am


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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by L'oisleatch McGraw » Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:01 am

Jon O'Neill wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:35 am
This will answer a couple.
Christ on a bike! :shock:
That site was so good.
We need a modern day equivalent...

Cheers for the link.
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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by Clive Brooker » Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:29 am

I used to be interested in this stuff.

Mike Brown's old site (already linked above) is the best authority I know of for the earlier years.

However, exactly how the books were interpreted may not be so clear. For example, when I've browsed through older games, trying to account for the historic adjudications, sometimes it looked as though words had been allowed if they were in an older dictionary but not in the current one. Maybe this was standard practice. But it's been a while and I'm not sure I can easily recall details.

As a consequence of hunting down copies of all the Countdown dictionaries I ended up with a complete collection of CODs, including the rare COD2 (1927-1932). That's quite a fun thing to have.

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Re: Dictionary Revisal

Post by Callum Todd » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:47 am

Think ODO came in Series 71, so 2014.
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