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I decided to find out what words you could have on Countdown, that can be preceded by OVER only, UNDER only and by both OVER and UNDER. This is what I came up with (with possibly a few mistakes, because its me ):
Words (and groups of letters) that can be preceded with OVER only:
Ginger Jono wrote:Well in. Quite interesting. Could've been done with a computer in about five minutes but how woudl you fill your time then?
I tend to overcomplicate things so if there is an easier way to do things, then I wont spot it
What I did was I downloaded a copy of the dictionary and then copied all the OVER words and UNDER words into separate notepad documents. I then replaced OVER and UNDER with nothing (so it would just delete the word) and then put the lists into the prargraph style above (as each word was originally on a separate line).
I then, using the UNDER list saw how many words in the UNDER list appeared in the OVER list and then noted them separately in a 3rd notepad document. I then deleted these words from the OVER and UNDER list and then copied my final 3 separate word lists into here, titled them and then posted .
It killed a bit of time
EDIT: Thats why I am expecting there to be mistakes
Ginger Jono wrote:Well in. Quite interesting. Could've been done with a computer in about five minutes but how woudl you fill your time then?
I tend to overcomplicate things so if there is an easier way to do things, then I wont spot it
What I did was I downloaded a copy of the dictionary and then copied all the OVER words and UNDER words into separate notepad documents. I then replaced OVER and UNDER with nothing (so it would just delete the word) and then put the lists into the prargraph style above (as each word was originally on a separate line).
I then, using the UNDER list saw how many words in the UNDER list appeared in the OVER list and then noted them separately in a 3rd notepad document. I then deleted these words from the OVER and UNDER list and then copied my final 3 separate word lists into here, titled them and then posted .
It killed a bit of time
EDIT: Thats why I am expecting there to be mistakes
In a way then it's a pity you can't have OVERHOVER*
Write a program. Given my experience in observing people who can actually do this, I think that would take about 5 minutes. Of course the hard bit would be going through and eliminating all the boring ones. Computers aren't good at that part.
Joseph Bolas wrote:How then would I be able to find all the words used in Countdown that can be hooked (front and end hooks, like in Scrabble)?
My game can show you all letters that can be added to any word/group of letters to make longer words (this is more relevant to Countdown than plain hooking, since you obviously don't have to keep the letters in the same order)
Joseph Bolas wrote:How then would I be able to find all the words used in Countdown that can be hooked (front and end hooks, like in Scrabble)?
My game can show you all letters that can be added to any word/group of letters to make longer words (this is more relevant to Countdown than plain hooking, since you obviously don't have to keep the letters in the same order)
So for example, if I took the 8 letter word AMNIOTES, your game would come up with:
AMNIOTES + A = ANATOMIES, ANATOMISE
AMNIOTES + C = ENCOMIAST
AMNIOTES + D = DOMINATES, STAMINODE
AMNIOTES + F = MANIFESTO
AMNIOTES + M = AMMONITES
AMNIOTES + N = NOMINATES
AMNIOTES + P = PTOMAINES
AMNIOTES + Z = MONAZITES
Last edited by Joseph Bolas on Thu May 29, 2008 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Well, except MONAZITES actually. I don't have my ODE2r to hand, but I'm guessing that's a mass noun plural that (possibly) Jim's included in his dictionary but I haven't in mine...?
Well, except MONAZITES actually. I don't have my ODE2r to hand, but I'm guessing that's a mass noun plural that (possibly) Jim's included in his dictionary but I haven't in mine...?
Oh, and it says NOMINATES and not NONIMATES
To be honest, I am not sure where I have got MONAZITES from I don't know if it appears in CountMax though, but it actually doesn't appear in the word list I have , so it mightn't be allowed. I think the mass noun that Susie allowed today (PALAGES was it?) is a new word too for the word list .
I have corrected the spelling of NOMINATES
To be honest, for now I am just looking for 1-letter hooks on words (allowed on Countdown). What else could your game do (eg what type of word lists could it generate etc)?
Joseph Bolas wrote:To be honest, for now I am just looking for 1-letter hooks on words (allowed on Countdown). What else could your game do (eg what type of word lists could it generate etc)?
Well that's the only feature that's built-in with a nice GUI, but I can do pretty much anything with the dictionary file and various anagramming subroutines that the game houses. I solved that BACKFIELD puzzle (that I think you posted) using it (although I didn't post the answer because it said "no cheating") plus I did some more extensive research on "sevens that are never the maximum" for example recently, and found that the list from the corral is far from comprehensive. However, I like to keep the results of such research to myself because I'm a selfish cunt and I want to maintain any slight advantage I can muster for the forthcoming CoC.
Like Jono says, once you've got the basics in place, writing most routines to pull lists from it can be done in a matter of minutes. So if there's any word lists you'd like, request them, and if I'm ever bored I might do it for you
Corby wrote:I did some more extensive research on "sevens that are never the maximum" for example recently, and found that the list from the corral is far from comprehensive. However, I like to keep the results of such research to myself because I'm a selfish cunt and I want to maintain any slight advantage I can muster for the forthcoming CoC.
So this table then, according your game, does not include every 7-letter-2-vowelled word where any vowel would make a valid 8?
Corby wrote:Like Jono says, once you've got the basics in place, writing most routines to pull lists from it can be done in a matter of minutes. So if there's any word lists you'd like, request them, and if I'm ever bored I might do it for you
Is this something thats easy to learn then? If it is, how could I go about learning the basics to then go on to write routines to create various types of word lists?
For now I am only after the 1-letter hooks on valid Countdown words to give another valid word and a list of words that are allowed on Countdown, that can be preceded by RE, to give another allowable word, if that makes sense.
Joseph Bolas wrote:How then would I be able to find all the words used in Countdown that can be hooked (front and end hooks, like in Scrabble)?
My game can show you all letters that can be added to any word/group of letters to make longer words (this is more relevant to Countdown than plain hooking, since you obviously don't have to keep the letters in the same order)
Joseph Bolas wrote:So this table then, according your game, does not include every 7-letter-2-vowelled word where any vowel would make a valid 8?
Correct.
Plus, equally as important, are ANY groups of 7 letters with 2 vowels or fewer, to which any vowel can be added to make an 8. There's lots of them too
Joseph Bolas wrote:Is this something thats easy to learn then? If it is, how could I go about learning the basics to then go on to write routines to create various types of word lists?
Well, yeah, but then I'm a programmer and stuff like this has always seemed fairly easy to me. The game is written in VB (as it's many, many years old) but I could equally take the dictionary data and stuff it into a database and write SQL queries to achieve the same stuff - so if you're a programmer, yeah it's easy, if you're not, it's not. And I'm guessing you're not since you asked the question
Joseph Bolas wrote:What are the 'extra bits' or are they a secret?
The game in its basic form lets you play a 1 or 2 player game of Countdown. In 1 player it keeps a "highest possible" score rather than employ some phoney CPU opponent. After each round DC shows you a selection of other available words (which will always include the maximum), plus it will also show you the best numbers solution (if a better one than the contestants was possible).
With the extras, you can fiddle with the clock, enter the rounds yourself (ie for playing along while watching on TV), see ALL anagrams available from a selection, and also see ALL possible expansions from words/groups of letters.
The dictionary is fully readable, searchable, and maintainable within the game also.
Joseph Bolas wrote:What are the 'extra bits' or are they a secret?
The game in its basic form lets you play a 1 or 2 player game of Countdown. In 1 player it keeps a "highest possible" score rather than employ some phoney CPU opponent. After each round DC shows you a selection of other available words (which will always include the maximum), plus it will also show you the best numbers solution (if a better one than the contestants was possible).
With the extras, you can fiddle with the clock, enter the rounds yourself (ie for playing along while watching on TV), see ALL anagrams available from a selection, and also see ALL possible expansions from words/groups of letters.
The dictionary is fully readable, searchable, and maintainable within the game also.
A bargain at £149.99.
Is it possible to disable the feature where you can enter your own rounds so you could just play the game in its basic form and keep track of your score against the highest possible score each game?
Joseph Bolas wrote:Is it possible to disable the feature where you can enter your own rounds so you could just play the game in its basic form and keep track of your score against the highest possible score each game?
Of course. That is the natural, default mode (for 1 player).
Corby wrote:Well, yeah, but then I'm a programmer and stuff like this has always seemed fairly easy to me. The game is written in VB (as it's many, many years old) but I could equally take the dictionary data and stuff it into a database and write SQL queries to achieve the same stuff - so if you're a programmer, yeah it's easy, if you're not, it's not. And I'm guessing you're not since you asked the question
Yeah I am definitely not a programmer . It would be interesting to learn though, because I am unemployed at the moment and with having nothing really to do (except job hunting of course, but that doesn't take up a whole week ) it would give me something to pass the time .
Joseph Bolas wrote:Is it possible to disable the feature where you can enter your own rounds so you could just play the game in its basic form and keep track of your score against the highest possible score each game?
Of course. That is the natural, default mode (for 1 player).
Thank you for the basic download .
Is it possible to disable the extra feature where you can enter your own rounds but still have the extra feature where you can see ALL possible expansions from words/groups of letters or is that pretty much the same thing (if that makes sense )?
If you want to make lists and stuff, TEA is really good. Get it from http://www.crosswordman.com/teadown.html
It comes with its own dictionary but if you can get the Countdown dictionary as a .sthg file then it'll read that. I don't really know how to do that but my brother managed it fairly easily by using the dictionary file that is included in Soo's Countdown game.
You can do all sorts of things with TEA like finding anagrams and word patterns like the OVER- UNDER- ones and other stuff I've forgotten about.
Gevin-Gavin wrote:Joseph, why were some of the words red?
The words OVERDRIVE, OVERVALUE, OVERVIEW and OVERVIEWS are red because going by the current letter frequency used on the show, there is only 1 V (for now), therefore these words would not appear in any word round selections on the show (but don't get me wrong though, they could still appear in a CO-event word round).
OVERDRIVE and OVERVALUE though, could appear as conundrums (on the show) .
Corby wrote: I did some more extensive research on "sevens that are never the maximum" for example recently, and found that the list from the corral is far from comprehensive. However, I like to keep the results of such research to myself because I'm a selfish cunt and I want to maintain any slight advantage I can muster for the forthcoming CoC.
You might not be the only person adopting such a strategy
Cheers bud. I'll post something interest eventually, but haven't watched the show for ages and after 9 hours of exams in 3 days, I can barely spell my own name.
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) it would give me something to pass the time 
