Definition of Since

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Philip Wilson
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Definition of Since

Post by Philip Wilson » Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:49 am

Hi
I am putting this here rather than off-topic, because it is Countdown related, sort of! I'm just wondering about the definition of the word since because I'm trying to explain in a blog that something has happened every month since August 2013. It actually DIDN'T happen in August 2013, but every month Since then, ie starting in September 2013! According to the OED this is correct, because since means 'between' the specified time and the 'perceived' present time - so not 'including' the specified time. Ok, so far so good.
But - this thing also has happened every August since August 2005 [except August 2013] but now I mean it DID happen in August 2005 - so I am including the specified time. It would sound completely wrong to say it has happened every August since 2004, when it actually DIDN'T happen then! Any thoughts???

Gavin Chipper
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Re: Definition of Since

Post by Gavin Chipper » Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:09 am

From

Edit - "Between" is always a funny one too. But yeah, use "from" for inclusive "since".

Philip Wilson
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Re: Definition of Since

Post by Philip Wilson » Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:22 am

Yeah, that makes more sense, cheers!
I've always interpreted 'between' as not including perimeters - but then 'between you and me' there are exceptions ;)
And if I say I've been wondering about this since yesterday, presumably I haven't started wondering yet? Dohhhhhh

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JimBentley
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Re: Definition of Since

Post by JimBentley » Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:12 pm

Philip Wilson wrote:I'm just wondering about the definition of the word since because I'm trying to explain in a blog that something has happened every month since August 2013. It actually DIDN'T happen in August 2013, but every month Since then, ie starting in September 2013!
Maybe I'm being simple, but if it didn't happen in August 2013, then why imply that it did? I would say that it has happened every month since September 2013.
Philip Wilson wrote:But - this thing also has happened every August since August 2005 [except August 2013] but now I mean it DID happen in August 2005
In that case, why wouldn't you say that it has happened every August since 2005, except August 2013? Can't see any grounds for confusion there.

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Re: Definition of Since

Post by Gavin Chipper » Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:35 pm

JimBentley wrote:
Philip Wilson wrote:I'm just wondering about the definition of the word since because I'm trying to explain in a blog that something has happened every month since August 2013. It actually DIDN'T happen in August 2013, but every month Since then, ie starting in September 2013!
Maybe I'm being simple, but if it didn't happen in August 2013, then why imply that it did? I would say that it has happened every month since September 2013.
Philip Wilson wrote:But - this thing also has happened every August since August 2005 [except August 2013] but now I mean it DID happen in August 2005
In that case, why wouldn't you say that it has happened every August since 2005, except August 2013? Can't see any grounds for confusion there.
Because "since" could be taken to mean after but not including.

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Re: Definition of Since

Post by Gavin Chipper » Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:38 pm

Another weird one that's vaguely related is that when I'm watching F1 motor racing, the commentators might say that someone has done a lap within 0.2 seconds of someone else. And by that, they don't mean just anywhere between 0 and 0.2 seconds - they mean 0.2 seconds slower. And it might even be rounded down to 0.2 (the exact gap might be e.g. 0.213 seconds), so it's not actually within 0.2 seconds at all!

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Re: Definition of Since

Post by JimBentley » Fri Sep 16, 2016 1:38 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:Because "since" could be taken to mean after but not including.
Oh god, this isn't going to lead back to that whole Millennium argument again, is it?

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Re: Definition of Since

Post by Gavin Chipper » Fri Sep 16, 2016 1:53 pm

JimBentley wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote:Because "since" could be taken to mean after but not including.
Oh god, this isn't going to lead back to that whole Millennium argument again, is it?
That was Philip's whole reason for starting the thread though wasn't it?

Philip Wilson
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Re: Definition of Since

Post by Philip Wilson » Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:27 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:
JimBentley wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote:Because "since" could be taken to mean after but not including.
Oh god, this isn't going to lead back to that whole Millennium argument again, is it?
That was Philip's whole reason for starting the thread though wasn't it?
I think I know what the millenium argument might be, but not sure, and it's definitely not my reason for starting the thread, lol.

I think I'm going to go with what Jim suggested though, thanks, but that still goes against the OED definition and it still doesn't answer the question:

Has Countdown been on C4 every year since 1982, or every year since 1981?
I guess it depends if 1981 is a year since 1981? I'd say it isn't!

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Re: Definition of Since

Post by Gavin Chipper » Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:12 pm

I would say - "This thing has happened every month from September 2013 onwards, and every August dating back to 2005".

Philip Wilson
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Re: Definition of Since

Post by Philip Wilson » Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:50 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:I would say - "This thing has happened every month from September 2013 onwards, and every August dating back to 2005".
Lol :-). Good thing Countdown's back on Monday then :-)

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Re: Definition of Since

Post by Gavin Chipper » Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:46 am

Gavin Chipper wrote:Another weird one that's vaguely related is that when I'm watching F1 motor racing, the commentators might say that someone has done a lap within 0.2 seconds of someone else. And by that, they don't mean just anywhere between 0 and 0.2 seconds - they mean 0.2 seconds slower. And it might even be rounded down to 0.2 (the exact gap might be e.g. 0.213 seconds), so it's not actually within 0.2 seconds at all!
This is pretty freaky.

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Re: Definition of Since

Post by Fred Mumford » Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:12 am

Not as freaky as the fact that that's the website I was just posting on a few minutes ago just before I came to this one.

Gavin Chipper
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Re: Definition of Since

Post by Gavin Chipper » Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:44 am

Fred Mumford wrote:Not as freaky as the fact that that's the website I was just posting on a few minutes ago just before I came to this one.
Are you RPM40? I did wonder if it was someone from this forum that also posted there. It still took the coincidence of the 0.213s gap though.

Edit - Wait a minute - you're not Scott M are you?

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Re: Definition of Since

Post by Fred Mumford » Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:59 am

Gavin Chipper wrote: Are you RPM40? I did wonder if it was someone from this forum that also posted there. It still took the coincidence of the 0.213s gap though.
No, so on reflection maybe that really is freaky. I would imagine the crossover between that forum and this one is pretty small in terms of common members.

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Re: Definition of Since

Post by Gavin Chipper » Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:35 am

Fred Mumford wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote: Are you RPM40? I did wonder if it was someone from this forum that also posted there. It still took the coincidence of the 0.213s gap though.
No, so on reflection maybe that really is freaky. I would imagine the crossover between that forum and this one is pretty small in terms of common members.
Could be Rhys.

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