The restaurant rule

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Paul Erdunast
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The restaurant rule

Post by Paul Erdunast » Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:21 pm

Just watching an old series of countdown and dictionary corner was discussing whether ravioli could be pluaralised, deciding that it couldn't be becaus it was already plural. The plural isn't allowed on apterous. Would it be allowed on countdown under the restaurant rule, since you can have two ravioli dishes?

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Jon O'Neill
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Re: The restaurant rule

Post by Jon O'Neill » Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:26 pm

I think the "restaurant rule" only applies to mass nouns as opposed to plural nouns. So for example, two lasagnes, two lagers, two waters.

Stewart Gordon
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Re: The restaurant rule

Post by Stewart Gordon » Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:33 pm

I've just looked it up, and it now gives RAVIOLI as a plural noun. It must have been listed as a mass noun in the dictionary that Countdown used at the time.

So now, if they allow RAVIOLIS, then I guess that they would have to allow CHIPSES? Or does it make a difference whether it's listed as a plural noun or merely the plural of a regular count noun?

Dan McColm
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Re: The restaurant rule

Post by Dan McColm » Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:44 pm

Ravioli (like spaghetti, panini, broccoli) is singular in English though. SPAGHETTI is also listed as a plural noun but "Can I have two spaghetti, please" sounds strange to me.

Gavin Chipper
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Re: The restaurant rule

Post by Gavin Chipper » Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:22 pm

Dan McColm wrote:Ravioli (like spaghetti, panini, broccoli) is singular in English though. SPAGHETTI is also listed as a plural noun but "Can I have two spaghetti, please" sounds strange to me.
But surely it's about whether it's listed as a singular or plural noun, not how we use it. The dictionary is supposed to be the arbiter. Whether the dictionary is any good at describing English as we use it is another matter.

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Matt Morrison
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Re: The restaurant rule

Post by Matt Morrison » Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:59 pm

Slow news day

Dan McColm
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Re: The restaurant rule

Post by Dan McColm » Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:13 am

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Dan McColm wrote:Ravioli (like spaghetti, panini, broccoli) is singular in English though. SPAGHETTI is also listed as a plural noun but "Can I have two spaghetti, please" sounds strange to me.
But surely it's about whether it's listed as a singular or plural noun, not how we use it. The dictionary is supposed to be the arbiter. Whether the dictionary is any good at describing English as we use it is another matter.
I agree, if the dictionary says it's a plural noun then for Countdown purposes we have to treat it as such - the editors of the dictionary have made a poor decision in these Italian plural noun decisions though.

Heather Styles

Re: The restaurant rule

Post by Heather Styles » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:58 pm

As if to demonstrate that I definitely have a life and do not need to get out more, I have been looking at the ODO entries for various shapes of pasta.

Most that I have found are categorised as plural nouns only: bucatini, capellini, conchiglie, farfalle, fettuccine, linguine, orecchiette, penne, ravioli, rigatoni, spaghetti, tagliatelle, tortelli, vermicelli.

So far, so simple (although the plural noun categorisation does seem bizarre in the light of everyday usage).

But what have we here? :o

cannelloni
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... cannelloni (plural noun for the pasta shapes, mass noun for the dish made using those shapes).

lasagne
www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/lasagne (plural noun for the pasta shapes, mass noun for the dish made using those shapes; an additional complication is that the Italian singular form, lasagna, is given as an alternative to lasagne, the Italian plural).

macaroni
www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/macaroni (noun, with plural given as macaronies, rather than macaronis).

tortellini
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... tortellini (noun - seems odd, given that tortelli is categorised as a plural noun, see above).

Confused? Hungry? Me too...

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Jon Corby
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Re: The restaurant rule

Post by Jon Corby » Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:21 pm

Somebody told me once that penne pasta was so called because of the Italian word for penis. I looked it up and found that it wasn't true, but let's go with it since it's vaguely phallic. Which pasta shape most resembles a vagina? I offer conchiglie but accept that my knowledge of pasta shapes isn't extensive.

Heather Styles

Re: The restaurant rule

Post by Heather Styles » Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:31 pm

Lady garden-shaped pasta already seems to exist, called "fichette" (literally, little figs). Of pasta shapes found in most supermarkets, conchiglie seems a decent shout. Conchiglie rigate (ribbed for his/her pleasure), conchigliette (small) and conchiglione (large) also exist - I swear I am not making this up.

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Jon Corby
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Re: The restaurant rule

Post by Jon Corby » Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:25 am

Heather Styles wrote: conchigliette (small)
That's just sick, frankly Heather.

Zarte Siempre
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Re: The restaurant rule

Post by Zarte Siempre » Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:03 am

Jon Corby wrote:
Heather Styles wrote: conchigliette (small)
That's just sick, frankly Heather.
Conchigliette sounds like you'd describe a hairy one rather than a small one.
Possibly the first contestant to accelerate with a mic clipped...

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Ian Volante
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Re: The restaurant rule

Post by Ian Volante » Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:00 pm

Jon Corby wrote:Somebody told me once that penne pasta was so called because of the Italian word for penis. I looked it up and found that it wasn't true, but let's go with it since it's vaguely phallic. Which pasta shape most resembles a vagina? I offer conchiglie but accept that my knowledge of pasta shapes isn't extensive.
That sounds like a garbled version of what I've heard, that English-speakers often pronounce penne wrongly, so end up asking for penis rather than what they're more likely to be looking for. A good way to end up with the wrong sort of carbonara.
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Heather Styles

Re: The restaurant rule

Post by Heather Styles » Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:29 pm

There's also pennette (little quills) and pennoni (large quills), so all is fair. I didn't make the Italian pasta rules.

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Johnny Canuck
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Re: The restaurant rule

Post by Johnny Canuck » Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:31 pm

Is the selection in round 3 here the only selection from which it has ever been possible to make a 9 by moving just one letter?
There are three erors in this semtence.

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Thomas Carey
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Re: The restaurant rule

Post by Thomas Carey » Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:04 pm

Johnny Canuck wrote:Is the selection in round 3 here the only selection from which it has ever been possible to make a 9 by moving just one letter?
Dunno, but why are you asking it in the vagina pasta thread?
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Ian Volante
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Re: The restaurant rule

Post by Ian Volante » Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:52 pm

Johnny Canuck wrote:Is the selection in round 3 here the only selection from which it has ever been possible to make a 9 by moving just one letter?
That was five letters. /pedantry
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Johnny Canuck
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Re: The restaurant rule

Post by Johnny Canuck » Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:53 pm

Thought I had wandered into Ask Graeme. Oopsie.
There are three erors in this semtence.

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