The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

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Graeme Cole
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The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by Graeme Cole »

Famously, one series of Countdown, Series 18 in 1989, suffered from an unexpected problem. A new red-on-white colour scheme for the letter and number tiles was introduced. Depending on which version of the story you read, the series was either wholly or partly recorded with snazzy new red-on-white tiles, until someone realised this colour combination might cause problems for viewers with epilepsy. At this point the production team scurried around trying to get the contestants back into the studio to re-record the games with the old tiles, but some contestants weren't available, so a few episodes were shown with the red-on-white letters.

This story appears on our wiki, and on Countdown's entry on ukgameshows.com. It's been accepted as part of the show's history.

But did it really happen?

Aside from our wiki and ukgameshows, one of which could have got the story from the other, I can't find any reference to it. I've never seen a picture or video showing the alleged epileptic-fit-inducing letters tiles, and you would have thought that with so many old Countdown episodes available on YouTube, one of them might by chance be one of the affected episodes. Interestingly, Countdown's Wikipedia article doesn't mention the story, and if there were citable evidence for it you'd expect it to appear on there.

Mike Brown's notes for the series don't make any reference to the new colour of the tiles, only a "new look" for the set. A new colour scheme for the tiles would probably have been mentioned.

Furthermore, I don't think anyone's ever heard a first-hand account from a contestant who was asked to come back to re-record an episode, have they? Would anyone like to come forward?

Does anyone even remember seeing an episode in 1989 with red-on-white tiles? I don't. Although I was only six years old then, and I don't think I watched Countdown every day, I would have watched it reasonably regularly, as that was the year I got a Countdown board game as a Christmas present. This doesn't disprove the story, of course - maybe there were only a few episodes shown with red-on-white tiles and I didn't see them, and in any case I don't remember any details from individual episodes that long ago. Perhaps someone else has a clearer memory?

This story is a bit like cricket commentator Brian Johnston's famous observation that "the bowler's Holding, the batsman's Willey". Everyone's heard of it, it's been generally accepted as true, and you can find references to it everywhere, but sadly no primary evidence exists and it probably never happened.

Based on the available evidence, I'm inclined to believe that the red-on-white tiles thing is no truer than the Harry Peters legend. Prove me wrong.
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by Graeme Cole »

Regarding the lack of any pictorial evidence - before anyone points it out, I know there's this picture, but it doesn't show any letter tiles.
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by Heather Styles »

I have no evidence to offer on the red and white tiles story. But I do know that there were (at least) two versions of the board game available in the 1980s, both with the same photograph. One had the heading "Countdown: The challenging word-power game" on a blue background, while the other had the heading "Countdown: The challenging words and numbers game" on a red background. So it could be that a red colour scheme was being experimented with at that time, and this may or may not lend weight to the red and white tiles story. Cutting-edge journalism there.
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by Gavin Chipper »

This seems a bit odd. In this alleged event, were the new tiles used from the start of the series? It would seem strange to change to them mid-series. Because the Wiki says:
This series saw the change of letter tiles to a new red and white design. After several episodes had been recorded, someone realised that this would cause problems for epileptics. An attempt was made to record all the shows again with the original contestants and different tiles, but this caused issues as some were no longer available. This resulted in some shows, notably in the series finals, still having to be screened with the problem tiles.
If they were used from the start of the series and they were also used in the series finals, then they were basically used for the whole series, right? Not just "some shows". And if they decided that they wanted to refilm the shows with these tiles, there's no way they'd do it for the whole series.

Derek Hazell made the edit that put in this information, so we could ask him where he got it from.

Also, a member of our community played in that series, so we could ask this person if they remember anything.

By the way, I'm pretty sure the Harry Peters story is all true so don't bring him into this.
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Graeme Cole wrote:Interestingly, Countdown's Wikipedia article doesn't mention the story, and if there were citable evidence for it you'd expect it to appear on there.
Really? Stuff on the Wikipedia has to have citable evidence, but stuff with citable evidence doesn't always make the Wikipedia.
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by JimBentley »

Graeme Cole wrote:Famously, one series of Countdown, Series 18 in 1989, suffered from an unexpected problem. A new red-on-white colour scheme for the letter and number tiles was introduced. Depending on which version of the story you read, the series was either wholly or partly recorded with snazzy new red-on-white tiles, until someone realised this colour combination might cause problems for viewers with epilepsy. At this point the production team scurried around trying to get the contestants back into the studio to re-record the games with the old tiles, but some contestants weren't available, so a few episodes were shown with the red-on-white letters...

Based on the available evidence, I'm inclined to believe that the red-on-white tiles thing is no truer than the Harry Peters legend. Prove me wrong.
This does ring a very vague bell, but the story as I remember it is something like:

Series 18 was the first series that Carol took over all the jobs, so it's a safe enough bet that there would be a new set introduced, and I do seem to remember a weeks' worth of shows having to be re-filmed because of some problem with the tiles. I'm pretty sure it wasn't a whole series. If it was a week of shows, then it was probably noticed within a day, given recording schedules, and it would have consisted of Rajaretnam Yogasagarar's first x games, all of which he won. I realise that clears absolutely nothing up at all.

I would ask Gevin to check on his Yahoo group (I can't seem to get into it any more) as I think there was something about it on there - or better still, the old Reach4 forum, which I believe is around as a file somewhere. But Gevin was posting under so many different aliases back then it would be almost impossible to tell. Probably just turn out that one of his aliases started it as a rumour (but not the same alias that started the Harry Peters rumour).
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by JimBentley »

JimBentley wrote:I would ask Gevin to check on his Yahoo group (I can't seem to get into it any more) as I think there was something about it on there - or better still, the old Reach4 forum...but Gevin was posting under so many different aliases back then...
I wish I could find the Reach4 forum file (you can't get to it from the Wayback Machine, I've tried), it would be a real eye-opener for those of you not around in 2001-2002. And seriously, Gevin had a serious amount of aliases on there, they used to carry on conversations with each other. I think he lost track at one point who he was and who he wasn't and had an argument with himself.

Naturally, he lost.
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by Conor »

I seem to recall reading about it in "Spreading the Word", which gives it some more credibility.
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by Ben Wilson »

Conor wrote:I seem to recall reading about it in "Spreading the Word", which gives it some more credibility.
Page 178 of my copy. It doesn't say the exact series number but does mention that it was 1989.
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by Graeme Cole »

Gavin Chipper wrote:This seems a bit odd. In this alleged event, were the new tiles used from the start of the series? It would seem strange to change to them mid-series. Because the Wiki says:
This series saw the change of letter tiles to a new red and white design. After several episodes had been recorded, someone realised that this would cause problems for epileptics. An attempt was made to record all the shows again with the original contestants and different tiles, but this caused issues as some were no longer available. This resulted in some shows, notably in the series finals, still having to be screened with the problem tiles.
If they were used from the start of the series and they were also used in the series finals, then they were basically used for the whole series, right? Not just "some shows". And if they decided that they wanted to refilm the shows with these tiles, there's no way they'd do it for the whole series.
I can believe that they got as far as designing red-on-white tiles, and maybe even that they filmed a very small number of shows and had to redo them, but re-recording the whole series seems fanciful. Perhaps the story has become exaggerated over the years?
Gavin Chipper wrote:Also, a member of our community played in that series, so we could ask this person if they remember anything.
I have and they don't.
Ben Wilson wrote:
Conor wrote:I seem to recall reading about it in "Spreading the Word", which gives it some more credibility.
Page 178 of my copy. It doesn't say the exact series number but does mention that it was 1989.
Interesting. Does it match the story on the wiki, or is it a pre-exaggerated version?
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by Gavin Chipper »

JimBentley wrote:I would ask Gevin to check on his Yahoo group (I can't seem to get into it any more) as I think there was something about it on there - or better still, the old Reach4 forum, which I believe is around as a file somewhere. But Gevin was posting under so many different aliases back then it would be almost impossible to tell. Probably just turn out that one of his aliases started it as a rumour (but not the same alias that started the Harry Peters rumour).
Can you not access the group here? Also, I probably still have the file of the Reach 4 forum posts, so could possibly e-mail it to you? I could also have a look at it myself.
JimBentley wrote:I wish I could find the Reach4 forum file (you can't get to it from the Wayback Machine, I've tried), it would be a real eye-opener for those of you not around in 2001-2002. And seriously, Gevin had a serious amount of aliases on there, they used to carry on conversations with each other. I think he lost track at one point who he was and who he wasn't and had an argument with himself.

Naturally, he lost.
You have to remember, Jim, that you were originally just one of my aliases. But then I developed your character too much and you took on a life of your own and started posting when I wasn't even online so it definitely couldn't have been me. It was around the time I came up with a biography of you and gave you a date of birth. I'd been reading about the racing driver Jeff Gordon and saw that he was born on 4th August 1971, and I thought "That's a pretty random date of birth that would be believable if I gave it to someone. It's also the sort of date of birth that a Countdown fan would have. It ticks all the boxes." So anyway, I made that your date of birth, and somehow you became real. I thought at first someone else might have just started posting under that name for a joke, but then you went on Countdown. Don't ask me how it happened, but it did.

But there's also the very strong possibility that the whole Countdown online community is one of Ben Wilson's dreams.
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by JimBentley »

Gavin Chipper wrote:Can you not access the group here?
Nah, I've long forgotten my Yahoo ID.

Anyway, I've found the Reach4 forum file itself now.
Gavin Chipper wrote:You have to remember, Jim, that you were originally just one of my aliases...etc.
Very good.

Anyway, you admitted it to me at COLIN in 2012 after I asked you, so there. I just can't remember which ones you admitted to.
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by Innis Carson »

I did always think the idea of refilming an entire series seemed rather strange, it'd surely have taken an unbelievable amount of effort and expenditure to get everyone back there again, and would it really have been worth it when you're going to have end up showing the red tiles some of the time anyway? It can't have been that big a problem if they were allowed to resort to that, so it seems very surprising that such an enormous undertaking would be green-lighted. But at the same time, it'd be a very peculiar thing for someone to make up, especially when it could (in theory) be so easily disproven.

Regarding Mike's notes, I notice he seems to have been unable to note the conundrum scrambles for most of the episodes this series, so is it possible he only listened to audio recordings of these episodes and therefore couldn't have seen the tiles? Maybe the presenters mentioned the 'new look' at the beginning of the series and he simply noted that without knowing the specifics. Can you shed any light on the matter, Mike?
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by Matt Morrison »

I assume someone has confirmed the science behind red and black triggering epileptic fits? I can't claim to know a great deal about epilepsy; it may well be common knowledge to those who do.
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

My aunt is an epileptic and she confirms that red and white (isn't this what you mean, Matt?) does cause problems for her.
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Rhys Benjamin wrote:My aunt is an epileptic and she confirms that red and white (isn't this what you mean, Matt?) does cause problems for her.
But is she a Tory as well?
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by Ben Wilson »

Graeme Cole wrote:
Ben Wilson wrote:
Conor wrote:I seem to recall reading about it in "Spreading the Word", which gives it some more credibility.
Page 178 of my copy. It doesn't say the exact series number but does mention that it was 1989.
Interesting. Does it match the story on the wiki, or is it a pre-exaggerated version?
StW says that a few shoes went out but loads of complaints were received, and epilepsy triggers were cited as a main cause (by the StW authors). Shows were scrapped and redone with contestants reenacting the original games, only some contestants weren't able to be reached so some games were completely binned and whole new games were played in their stead.
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Ben Wilson wrote:StW says that a few shoes went out but loads of complaints were received, and epilepsy triggers were cited as a main cause (by the StW authors). Shows were scrapped and redone with contestants reenacting the original games, only some contestants weren't able to be reached so some games were completely binned and whole new games were played in their stead.
I was going to ask about this when Graeme first mentioned it. So they asked contestants back to play sham games? I think "weren't able to be reached" is perhaps more likely to be "could not be arsed to go all the way back to the studio just to lose the same game again".
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Rhys Benjamin wrote:My aunt is an epileptic and she confirms that red and white (isn't this what you mean, Matt?) does cause problems for her.
But is she a Tory as well?
Yes. Well, Tory-cum-UKIP.
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by Philip Wilson »

So what about the DC guests? Did they go back too or did they manage to somehow edit the original shots because the tiles would not be visible in the same shot?!
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Graeme Cole wrote:At this point the production team scurried around trying to get the contestants back into the studio to re-record the games with the old tiles, but some contestants weren't available, so a few episodes were shown with the red-on-white letters.
Ben Wilson wrote:Shows were scrapped and redone with contestants reenacting the original games, only some contestants weren't able to be reached so some games were completely binned and whole new games were played in their stead.
I think the version described by Graeme is unrealistic. If they showed the red-on-white episodes when the contestants weren't available to reshoot, then it would have been a very strange experience for the viewers with the constant changing of tile type from episode to episode.
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by Graeme Cole »

Why would you need the contestants back in the studio anyway? When do the tiles ever appear in the same shot as the contestants, other than during the clock? Even then it's a split-screen thing so they could have splatted a new picture containing the blue tiles over the bottom of the existing picture.

There might have been an occasional problem with any wide-angle shots of the set, but I'd have thought these were few and far between.

Maybe editing was harder then, but so much so that re-recording entire shows and paying a whole lot of new hotel bookings and train fares was worth it?
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

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Graeme Cole wrote:Why would you need the contestants back in the studio anyway? When do the tiles ever appear in the same shot as the contestants, other than during the clock? Even then it's a split-screen thing so they could have splatted a new picture containing the blue tiles over the bottom of the existing picture.

There might have been an occasional problem with any wide-angle shots of the set, but I'd have thought these were few and far between.

Maybe editing was harder then, but so much so that re-recording entire shows and paying a whole lot of new hotel bookings and train fares was worth it?
I reckon it would have been too hard for Carol to get her timing spot on to make it look believable, especially when she does the numbers solutions.
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Graeme Cole wrote:Why would you need the contestants back in the studio anyway? When do the tiles ever appear in the same shot as the contestants, other than during the clock? Even then it's a split-screen thing so they could have splatted a new picture containing the blue tiles over the bottom of the existing picture.

There might have been an occasional problem with any wide-angle shots of the set, but I'd have thought these were few and far between.

Maybe editing was harder then, but so much so that re-recording entire shows and paying a whole lot of new hotel bookings and train fares was worth it?
I do think that this story is starting to unravel. Maybe not entirely - I'm not saying the whole thing is made up - but certainly the extent of it.

So basically we're saying that the suggestion is that they invited contestants back to exactly re-enact their previous games? That would be very hard even if they could convince people to come back. They'd have to select exactly the right number of consonants and vowels each time, declare the right words and numbers solutions, and laugh at Richard Whiteley's puns having already heard them once before! There's no way that would ever happen. And I don't think it would be very appealing for players to come to the studio to do this, especially those who lost their first game. They'd need more than expenses for that hassle.

Or did they have rematches so that any player could win? But would likely be seen as unfair.

So what do we think is the most realistic version of this story then given everything that has been said?
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by Countdown Team »

Shows featuring red and white tiles were definitely made and definitely binned, for reasons already stated elsewhere.

As to the extent of the rest of the claims, what exactly are they?
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Countdown Team wrote:Shows featuring red and white tiles were definitely made and definitely binned, for reasons already stated elsewhere.

As to the extent of the rest of the claims, what exactly are they?
I suppose the main questions are:

How many and which episodes were filmed using the red and white tiles?

How many and which of these were actually shown?

What did they do about the binned episodes and the contestants that took part in them? Were they invited back? Did they play new games or just to a script etc.?

If players were invited back, what did they do if they couldn't make it? (This would really only be a problem if they were trying to re-enact the whole series.)

Or in summary - exactly what happened?
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by Graeme Cole »

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Countdown Team wrote:Shows featuring red and white tiles were definitely made and definitely binned, for reasons already stated elsewhere.

As to the extent of the rest of the claims, what exactly are they?
I suppose the main questions are:

How many and which episodes were filmed using the red and white tiles?

How many and which of these were actually shown?

What did they do about the binned episodes and the contestants that took part in them? Were they invited back? Did they play new games or just to a script etc.?

If players were invited back, what did they do if they couldn't make it? (This would really only be a problem if they were trying to re-enact the whole series.)

Or in summary - exactly what happened?
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by Countdown Team »

Gavin Chipper wrote: I suppose the main questions are:

How many and which episodes were filmed using the red and white tiles?

How many and which of these were actually shown?

What did they do about the binned episodes and the contestants that took part in them? Were they invited back? Did they play new games or just to a script etc.?

If players were invited back, what did they do if they couldn't make it? (This would really only be a problem if they were trying to re-enact the whole series.)

Or in summary - exactly what happened?
Oh, so questions, not claims?

There's nobody around to answer these exact questions, but all we do know is that SOME shows were filmed using white tiles with red letters, and shortly after a few episodes were screened, they were ditched and replaced with different coloured tiles. The most likely scenario is that no actual shows were redone in their entirety, probably just the letters selections using the original VT of the contestant but inserting the new VT of Carol taking out the newly designed tiles, likewise with the numbers and the board shots of the winning words, then the conundrum.

Would have been no need to restage the whole programme again.
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by Mark Deeks »

Must have been a rough day for Carol.
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Countdown Team wrote:Oh, so questions, not claims?
Well I suppose so. The claims are what Graeme laid out at the beginning.
There's nobody around to answer these exact questions, but all we do know is that SOME shows were filmed using white tiles with red letters, and shortly after a few episodes were screened, they were ditched and replaced with different coloured tiles. The most likely scenario is that no actual shows were redone in their entirety, probably just the letters selections using the original VT of the contestant but inserting the new VT of Carol taking out the newly designed tiles, likewise with the numbers and the board shots of the winning words, then the conundrum.

Would have been no need to restage the whole programme again.
OK. Thanks for the info.
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Re: The red and white tiles story. Truth or sloblock?

Post by Countdown Team »

Ah - the Graeme opening bit that 'until somebody realised' is slightly misleading. Some shows were filmed with white and red tiles and a few were screened. Then, over the days these shows were screened, C4 were bombarded with calls about the difficulty viewing red letters on a white background, so things were reshot using newly coloured tiles. That's about it really.

The bit about some contestants not being available to reshoot is wrong. The shows with red and white tiles were aired in total unawareness of the problems they caused. They weren't aired because contestants couldn't return. And unlike Harry Peters, this did happen.
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