Mass noun inconsistency

[Martin Thompson]

I've just received the literature for appearing on the show, which includes a section on allowable words, in particular mass nouns.

Generally, mass nouns can not be pluralised, and it gives the example of 'sanidine'. However, there is then a fairly long list of exceptions. For example, rocks, so that you can have 'granites'.

But sanidine is a mineral. Does that mean rocks can be pluralised but minerals can't? So granite, yes, quartz and feldspar no?

[Andy Platt]

Hey man, welcome

I just had a quick look in the dictionary for you (the same one I received when I was on TV this year - therefore, by extension, the same one Susie will have until Summer 2014) and I believe GRANITES would be allowed because it's listed in the dictionary secondarily "as modifier: granite columns". Under its normal meaning, it's definitely listed as a mass noun and wouldn't be able to be pluralised. Fortunately in this particular case, the debatable pluralisation of GRANITES itself can be completely foregone by spotting the easier words ANGRIEST and TASERING and declaring them instead. Although admittedly for other words there could be a grey area. As such I'd suggest borrowing a copy of the dictionary used on Countdown to help you practice, or play a few games over at apterous.org where the lexicon correlates to that used on Countdown to about 99.99% accuracy.

[Dan McColm]

Being a modifier just means that it's used adjectivally (you can't say *granites columns), so GRANITES being acceptable won't be anything to do with that

[Andy Platt]

I see

[Charlie Reams]

The mass noun rules are famously inconsistent. A quick search through the forum history will uncover millions of words of discussion about various cases. Enjoy!

[Martin Thompson]

I've bean analysing the on-line Oxford dictionary for some time.

On today's programme I saw the word 'betaines'. However, betaine is a chemical and shown as a mass noun, so I would guess you can't have that. I also spotted 'beamiest' which I believe is acceptable so I would have gone for that. Though funnily enough, I missed the more common words of 'matinees' and 'basement'.

[Dan McColm]

There is a count noun sense of BETAINE:
[count noun] any zwitterionic compound of the type represented by betaine.

[David Williams]

I know what the rules say, but as a rule of thumb, while you can put an 's' on even the most unlikely foodstuff, I'd be very wary about anything else. The chances of it actually happening are pretty small, fortunately.