Hex

Cerebral distractions of every kind, mostly but not exclusively Countdown-related.

Moderator: Michael Wallace

User avatar
Michael Wallace
Racoonteur
Posts: 5458
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:01 am
Location: London

Re: Hex

Post by Michael Wallace » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:37 pm

Interesting, thanks. I thought that your first cash square is 'safe' automatically, but it could be that you just get 30p. The numbers on lifeboats is interesting, since that means you're more likely to hit one than hit a mine (unless you've hit, like, 3). Do you know how big the grid is?

User avatar
Ian Volante
Postmaster General
Posts: 3310
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:15 pm
Location: Edinburgh
Contact:

Re: Hex

Post by Ian Volante » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:54 pm

The oldest version simply depends on getting along the line that counts the number of bits of boats sunk (5 for a carrier etc), and the prize is just a certain distance along that line, I'm pretty sure there was no money game.
meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles

User avatar
Matt Morrison
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7378
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:27 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Hex

Post by Matt Morrison » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:55 pm

Michael Wallace wrote:Interesting, thanks. I thought that your first cash square is 'safe' automatically, but it could be that you just get 30p. The numbers on lifeboats is interesting, since that means you're more likely to hit one than hit a mine (unless you've hit, like, 3). Do you know how big the grid is?
I'll pay more attention next time I play and give more accurate figures on lifeboats and 2x squares, and on grid size. My guess would be, I dunno, 12x10? 15x12? Somewhere in between those! Might even be square but I've always imagined it slightly rectangular.

User avatar
Matt Morrison
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7378
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:27 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Hex

Post by Matt Morrison » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:55 pm

Ian Volante wrote:The oldest version simply depends on getting along the line that counts the number of bits of boats sunk (5 for a carrier etc), and the prize is just a certain distance along that line, I'm pretty sure there was no money game.
I've never heard of that or played it, must have been out of circulation for a long time. That is the same "money game" as the latest one though.

User avatar
Michael Wallace
Racoonteur
Posts: 5458
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:01 am
Location: London

Re: Hex

Post by Michael Wallace » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:10 pm

Matt Morrison wrote:
Michael Wallace wrote:Interesting, thanks. I thought that your first cash square is 'safe' automatically, but it could be that you just get 30p. The numbers on lifeboats is interesting, since that means you're more likely to hit one than hit a mine (unless you've hit, like, 3). Do you know how big the grid is?
I'll pay more attention next time I play and give more accurate figures on lifeboats and 2x squares, and on grid size. My guess would be, I dunno, 12x10? 15x12? Somewhere in between those! Might even be square but I've always imagined it slightly rectangular.
I've always thought it was a square (since I assume the first bit of the game is a square), but never actually checked. With a rough distribution of mines/lifeboats/x2/money it would be pretty easy to work out a good stopping rule.

David Barnard
Enthusiast
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:02 am

Re: Hex

Post by David Barnard » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:33 pm

My first post on here so sorry if it seems a bit random, but I think word soup is a good game for people with a good lexical knowledge, I'm surprised that it hasn't been mentioned about more on here, provided the machine doesn't set you a ridiculously high score it is pretty easy to win at least a quid, good tips for winning in my experience are below.

On the first 10 or 15 moves try and make the longest words possible or 'work' the tiles into positions that you can make the longest words possible. Try and use awkward letters in the high scoring moves such as f,k,v and w.
The middle of the game places more of an emphasis on using the awkward letters if you haven't at the start of the game try to do all of these moves as quickly as possible to give yourself time for the next tip.
On the end middle part of the game (last 25 tiles or so) it is often advantageous to count how many tiles there is left and then the vowel to consonant ratio to see if the letters are balanced or not. Remember you get 500 points bonus for clearing the grid so take care at the end of the game.
At the very end of the game try and leave yourself a 3 letter word to finish so if you have 15 tiles left then try and make 5 3 letter words rather than go for the long ones as clearing the board is more important at this stage.
Well there is my first post, hope it's helpful :)

User avatar
Craig Beevers
Series 57 Champion
Posts: 653
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 am
Contact:

Re: Hex

Post by Craig Beevers » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:11 pm

Yes good Apterous players should be able to at least get their money back on Word Soup after a little practice, unless you're in a really tough area for pub machines (such as parts of London) in which case however good you are you'll lose money. Getting the end right so you clear is the most important part, leaving yourself a little bit of thinking time.

I was on a weird machine the other day where I stuffed up the first go and only got 1100, but still ended up winning £1. Second go I got 1700odd and the £1 came up before I'd cleared... but didn't get any more money. Grrrr. Obviously clearing first go is important because it gets much harder to win when you get even semi-decent scores.

User avatar
Kirk Bevins
God
Posts: 4923
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:18 pm
Location: York, UK

Re: Hex

Post by Kirk Bevins » Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:17 am

I've never won on word soup. Hexagrams however I win the jackpot virtually every time. Hex, as played in Lincoln with the other Countdowners, we won 6/6 times. It's a shame the new machines have scrapped Hexagrams and made Hex so hard to win on.

User avatar
Matt Morrison
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7378
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:27 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Hex

Post by Matt Morrison » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:10 am

MW - sorry forgot to get back to you. Can confirm the Battleships we play is indeed Battleships 2. And that the prize grid is 10x10, same as the playing grid.
However, when we collected £2.50 the other day it skipped the screen where it shows you the whole grid and went straight to the "next game bonus" screen - never seen it do that before, presumably just a freak occurrence. Annoying as I even had Heather ready - "right, you count the lifeboats and I'll count the x2s!" hehe

User avatar
Craig Beevers
Series 57 Champion
Posts: 653
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 am
Contact:

Re: Hex

Post by Craig Beevers » Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:13 am

Kirk Bevins wrote:I've never won on word soup. Hexagrams however I win the jackpot virtually every time. Hex, as played in Lincoln with the other Countdowners, we won 6/6 times. It's a shame the new machines have scrapped Hexagrams and made Hex so hard to win on.
I suppose it helps if you know some basic 3s/4s. But still if you concentrate on completing the grid first you should get the hang of it. There's a demo online somewhere that allows you to play virtually the same game for an hour.

Ryan Taylor
Postmaster General
Posts: 3662
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:18 pm

Re: Hex

Post by Ryan Taylor » Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:18 am

Word Soup is hard.

Solo £10 win on MPDL last night! Very easy questions though (last question was about the Thistle being the Scottish national emblem).

David Barnard
Enthusiast
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:02 am

Re: Hex

Post by David Barnard » Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:14 pm

'I suppose it helps if you know some basic 3s/4s. But still if you concentrate on completing the grid first you should get the hang of it. There's a demo online somewhere that allows you to play virtually the same game for an hour.'

Once you get down to the last tiles it helps if you know some all vowel and consonant words, decent scrabble players should be familiar with them like 'euoi', 'euouae' and 'aia', that is usually enough to get it balanced again. Once you get down to the last few letters it really is important to have a good balance, a bit like scrabble.

Also sorry that I don't reply with quotation's but I am new on here and am unsure, I'm sure I will learn soon though :)

User avatar
Chris Davies
Series 61 Champion
Posts: 404
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:50 pm

Re: Hex

Post by Chris Davies » Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:13 pm

I've found that Hexagrams and Secret Letter have disappeared from every machine I can find, and Word Soup has appeared on those machines which used to have the aforesaid games. Hex Maniac has some new categories like 'Latin' and is now so difficult I find it's not even worth playing.

David Barnard
Enthusiast
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:02 am

Re: Hex

Post by David Barnard » Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:44 pm

Chris Davies wrote:I've found that Hexagrams and Secret Letter have disappeared from every machine I can find, and Word Soup has appeared on those machines which used to have the aforesaid games. Hex Maniac has some new categories like 'Latin' and is now so difficult I find it's not even worth playing.
I think they're one of those one jackpot games where if you win the jackpot the game will disappear immediately after because at my pub I won the biggie on secret letter (well only £10 so not so big) and the game disappeared straight after, they don't want word nerds like us winning the jackpot every time.

User avatar
Matt Morrison
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7378
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:27 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Hex

Post by Matt Morrison » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:26 pm

took £10 to the final question on Millionaire earlier and was asked who Sean Scully was. Panicked and meant to stick 5 on the right answer but stuck on 2 in the end and 4 on two others. Well annoying, but even more so to get a non-simple question when the previous couple had included "As keen as" Mustard/Horseradish/Mint sauce/Ketchup

User avatar
Jon Corby
Moral Hero
Posts: 7918
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Hex

Post by Jon Corby » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:55 pm

Matt Morrison wrote:took £10 to the final question on Millionaire earlier
Haha, you got the name of the game wrong, no wonder you don't win as many jackpots as me!

(I've never heard of Sean Scully btw)

Ryan Taylor
Postmaster General
Posts: 3662
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:18 pm

Re: Hex

Post by Ryan Taylor » Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:07 pm

I've also never heard of Sean Scully. You were stitched up there big time.

User avatar
Matt Morrison
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7378
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:27 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Hex

Post by Matt Morrison » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:22 pm

Sadly I had - but only on a "shit I've fucked up a question about him on some other game about a year ago" tip, so it wasn't much use and just made it all the more frustrating.
Drop is such an odd game then - we now know it can be a total breeze right through, a bitch right through, or even a breeze right through then a bitch on the final question.

User avatar
Ian Volante
Postmaster General
Posts: 3310
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:15 pm
Location: Edinburgh
Contact:

Re: Hex

Post by Ian Volante » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:21 pm

I discovered it for the first time last Friday. First time I had a rubbish question about halfway, took £2 to the very end, then on the last question got one that I had no idea on. Second time, I got stuffed early. It does seem a relatively easy question set though.
meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles

User avatar
Kirk Bevins
God
Posts: 4923
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:18 pm
Location: York, UK

Re: Hex

Post by Kirk Bevins » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:21 pm

David Barnard wrote:
I think they're one of those one jackpot games where if you win the jackpot the game will disappear immediately after because at my pub I won the biggie on secret letter (well only £10 so not so big) and the game disappeared straight after, they don't want word nerds like us winning the jackpot every time.
Nope. I'll often stay on the same machine and win the Hexagrams jackpot twice (£5 a time) then remain on there for an hour and win the jackpot of £1 90% of times. However the updated machines have a red background and they have removed Hexagrams and made Hex Maniac so difficult. Categories include butterflies or insects and are all Latin names and some aren't even guessable. I played £1 a play twice and got absolutely screwed....once on the very first hexagon.

David Barnard
Enthusiast
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:02 am

Re: Hex

Post by David Barnard » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:37 pm

Kirk Bevins wrote:
David Barnard wrote:
I think they're one of those one jackpot games where if you win the jackpot the game will disappear immediately after because at my pub I won the biggie on secret letter (well only £10 so not so big) and the game disappeared straight after, they don't want word nerds like us winning the jackpot every time.
Nope. I'll often stay on the same machine and win the Hexagrams jackpot twice (£5 a time) then remain on there for an hour and win the jackpot of £1 90% of times. However the updated machines have a red background and they have removed Hexagrams and made Hex Maniac so difficult. Categories include butterflies or insects and are all Latin names and some aren't even guessable. I played £1 a play twice and got absolutely screwed....once on the very first hexagon.
Ouch, maybe it's only secret letter that has that sort of behaviour, word soup came back at our local and that thrilled me as it's my all time favourite, it's definitely a game that I enjoy because it makes you look clever if you can find words quickly on the spot. I find hexagrams difficult though for some reason, one I have won my quid on word soup I go onto prize pyramids, I play word soup for fun and high scores, but play prize pyramids primarily for cash although it's a shit game lol

User avatar
Matt Morrison
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7378
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:27 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Hex

Post by Matt Morrison » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:38 am

David - look through the rest of the thread - I've already discussed Secret Letter quite a lot (include it disappearing when you win a jackpot in two pubs I've won it on). No one else really got into Secret Letter but it was a really easy money maker once you learn all the good words for killing horrible letters like HAJJ and CALX and things.

MW - won on Battleships yesterday, we counted 9 lifeboats and 11 x2 squares which is quite nuts - that's 1 in 5 squares being totally awesome! We stuck on £3 as we'd already won the £10 on Drop (yay!) and didn't think the machine would be offering us much more even though all the pickups we'd made were 30p/40p/50p, no super low ones. Anyway, we were promptly proved wrong when we won DOND in the next game or two - and for the first time in ages it was £4/5/6 rather than £3/3.50/4 which was a very pleasant surprise. £16 profit in about 20 minutes, best run in a while.

User avatar
Jon Corby
Moral Hero
Posts: 7918
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Hex

Post by Jon Corby » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:13 am

Matt Morrison wrote:DOND in the next game or two - and for the first time in ages it was £4/5/6 rather than £3/3.50/4
Wow, never seen that - never knew it could be anything other than £3, £3.50 & £4.

User avatar
Matt Morrison
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7378
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:27 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Hex

Post by Matt Morrison » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:00 pm

Jon Corby wrote:
Matt Morrison wrote:DOND in the next game or two - and for the first time in ages it was £4/5/6 rather than £3/3.50/4
Wow, never seen that - never knew it could be anything other than £3, £3.50 & £4.
Also seen £2/2.50/3 and £2/3/4 on the lower end of the scale.

Six months or so ago it used to vary A LOT - but I'd say the last ten times we'd won it before tonight (tend to win it on most sessions) it had been £3/3.50/4.

User avatar
Michael Wallace
Racoonteur
Posts: 5458
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:01 am
Location: London

Re: Hex

Post by Michael Wallace » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:45 pm

Wow, I've never seen 4/5/6 either, only ever 3/3.5/4 and occasionally 2/2.5/3. ( lifeboats and 11x2 is crazy, do the number of mines vary or is it always the same?

User avatar
Matt Morrison
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7378
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:27 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Hex

Post by Matt Morrison » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:56 pm

Michael Wallace wrote:Wow, I've never seen 4/5/6 either, only ever 3/3.5/4 and occasionally 2/2.5/3. ( lifeboats and 11x2 is crazy, do the number of mines vary or is it always the same?
Quite shocked by no one having seen 4/5/6 before - used to be quite common if machine wanted to pay out.

Number of mines is always 5. I'll keep collecting data about number of lifeboats and number of x2, but let's face it - it's all made up really isn't it? They might as well show you 40 x2 squares, they're still going to make sure you land on a mine first if they want you to.

User avatar
Jon Corby
Moral Hero
Posts: 7918
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Hex

Post by Jon Corby » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:01 pm

Matt Morrison wrote:
Michael Wallace wrote:Wow, I've never seen 4/5/6 either, only ever 3/3.5/4 and occasionally 2/2.5/3. ( lifeboats and 11x2 is crazy, do the number of mines vary or is it always the same?
Quite shocked by no one having seen 4/5/6 before - used to be quite common if machine wanted to pay out.

Number of mines is always 5. I'll keep collecting data about number of lifeboats and number of x2, but let's face it - it's all made up really isn't it? They might as well show you 40 x2 squares, they're still going to make sure you land on a mine first if they want you to.
No, what you do now is keep playing (and not collecting) and then Raccoon Boy can examine the data to see how fair the endgame is.

User avatar
Michael Wallace
Racoonteur
Posts: 5458
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:01 am
Location: London

Re: Hex

Post by Michael Wallace » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:15 pm

Jon Corby wrote:No, what you do now is keep playing (and not collecting) and then Raccoon Boy can examine the data to see how fair the endgame is.
:mrgreen:

I can't remember if I ever reported my colour of money findings on here. The short of it is that it seems fair when you're going for the points, but with money it's incredibly heavily biased towards the low values. Our strategy in the money round is go for £2 until you hit it/get a higher number, then go for £1. Once you've had 2-3 values of £1 or more then just stick to 50p. £1 and £2 are really common, which means you get either a free try again or (if you have 3 lives already) you get bonus cash, which is awesome.

I've often wondered about the fairness of endgames like battleships. Presumably the machines are regulated by someone? I'd have to check but I don't think colour of money reveals where the cash was at the end, whereas the fact battleships does would make me feel a bit annoyed if it wasn't predetermined.

One other thing, does the x2 double all your money, or just that since your last lifeboat? And do you think you'd get in trouble for snapping a photo of the screen? I've been thinking of doing that on our next outing.

User avatar
Jon Corby
Moral Hero
Posts: 7918
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Hex

Post by Jon Corby » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:09 pm

Michael Wallace wrote:I've often wondered about the fairness of endgames like battleships. Presumably the machines are regulated by someone? I'd have to check but I don't think colour of money reveals where the cash was at the end, whereas the fact battleships does would make me feel a bit annoyed if it wasn't predetermined.
Battleships will make no claim about fairness, and I'm pretty sure it won't fall foul of any regulations. Pub AWPs (fruit machines) always state somewhere (in small unlit letters) that the odds aren't as they seem (I forget the exact wording now, it's been a while), i.e., going lower on an 11 is just an illusion that the odds are in your favour. Section 12s (FOBTs and casino-style fruit machines) state that they are truly random, and therefore have to be. I'm pretty sure SWPs fall in the same bracket as AWPs though. Except they're allowed to be set on much, much lower payout percentages. It's a bit annoying really because there's no need for it - it should be possible to work out a fair endgame that pays an average win that, long term, keeps the machine within its expected payout %. It would be much more exciting, wouldn't it?

(I shouldn't really complain though actually, as it's the introduction of these controlling mechanisms that makes it possible to beat them)

User avatar
Michael Wallace
Racoonteur
Posts: 5458
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:01 am
Location: London

Re: Hex

Post by Michael Wallace » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:27 pm

Huh, interesting stuff. I'd always thought that there would be some rules that stop certain things. Like, say on a chase the lady game it just randomised it occasionally, would anyone think that was ok? It would seem really odd/deceptive to reveal the battleships grid at the end if that wasn't what was really underneath all along, but maybe I'm just a bit naive.

That said, if there are only 5 mines then that would seem a bit dodgy based on personal experience. If we all just start blindly playing "play until you explode" it would be easy to check, though.

User avatar
Jon Corby
Moral Hero
Posts: 7918
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Hex

Post by Jon Corby » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:51 pm

Michael Wallace wrote:Huh, interesting stuff. I'd always thought that there would be some rules that stop certain things. Like, say on a chase the lady game it just randomised it occasionally, would anyone think that was ok? It would seem really odd/deceptive to reveal the battleships grid at the end if that wasn't what was really underneath all along, but maybe I'm just a bit naive.
Personally, I'd be staggered if it was a fair game. Deal or no Deal always used to reveal the boxes, but I never ever believed it. I just think they would make a point of stating that it was true odds, if it was. As for chase the lady, some of them just go ridiculously fast (I think on the original endgame of Caesar's Palace they actually used to fly out of view and then back in as well) that you can't follow them. I think once it wants to kill you there, it'll just do it. I don't really have anything to back that up though, it's just my opinion. (But I can say with certainty that's how AWPs work.)

Didn't MWM have a load of ROMs of slightly older quiz games? Can you not do save/load states on them to prove the point?

David Barnard
Enthusiast
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:02 am

Re: Hex

Post by David Barnard » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:36 pm

Matt Morrison wrote:David - look through the rest of the thread - I've already discussed Secret Letter quite a lot (include it disappearing when you win a jackpot in two pubs I've won it on). No one else really got into Secret Letter but it was a really easy money maker once you learn all the good words for killing horrible letters like HAJJ and CALX and things.

MW - won on Battleships yesterday, we counted 9 lifeboats and 11 x2 squares which is quite nuts - that's 1 in 5 squares being totally awesome! We stuck on £3 as we'd already won the £10 on Drop (yay!) and didn't think the machine would be offering us much more even though all the pickups we'd made were 30p/40p/50p, no super low ones. Anyway, we were promptly proved wrong when we won DOND in the next game or two - and for the first time in ages it was £4/5/6 rather than £3/3.50/4 which was a very pleasant surprise. £16 profit in about 20 minutes, best run in a while.
Sorry I didn't read that part but now I have, £16 in 20 minutes is bonkers for a quiz machine, good run and one I can't relate to, good going.

User avatar
Matt Morrison
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7378
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:27 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Hex

Post by Matt Morrison » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:46 pm

x2 doubles the pot, regardless of lifeboat action.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests