General feedback

JimBentley · Post by **JimBentley** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:11 pm

Wasn't sure where to put this, so have made a new thread for it.

Just had a couple of games against Kirk and first of all - it's really good. I'm totally impressed.

I still can't really get the numbers game to work, though. A couple of times, the program seems to have automatically recognised a solution typed in, but sometimes it ignores it and goes to the "show your solution" bit. I can't get this bit to work at all, as there's a massive lag from clicking on a number for that number to represent in the solution screen, so it's impossible to get an entire solution in before the time runs out, time always runs out while I'm waiting for the number I clicked to appear on the screen. I think this might be because my computer's shit, though, or because I'm shit at clicking things with mice.

Good stuff, though! I'll perservere.

Kirk Bevins · Post by **Kirk Bevins** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:46 pm

What are the items in the inventory - the blue goat, the orange goat and the Benjamins? I think this may need to be added to the FAQ as it's a frequent question (I'll ask it 24 more times if necessary).

EDIT: Before anyone asks - 25 is an arbitrary number I picked for the number of questions to make it a FAQ.

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:58 pm

jimbentley wrote: I still can't really get the numbers game to work, though. A couple of times, the program seems to have automatically recognised a solution typed in, but sometimes it ignores it and goes to the "show your solution" bit. I can't get this bit to work at all, as there's a massive lag from clicking on a number for that number to represent in the solution screen, so it's impossible to get an entire solution in before the time runs out, time always runs out while I'm waiting for the number I clicked to appear on the screen. I think this might be because my computer's shit, though, or because I'm shit at clicking things with mice.

The format for solutions in the Notes panel is fairly strict; you need to get your brackets correct (although it's safe to have too many) and enter the entire method as a single expression, eg (3+7)x75+6
If you think you've done this correctly and your method is still ignored, please send me the method exactly as you typed it -- there might be bugs lurking.

However the laggy thing should definitely not happen. It's hard for me to fix stuff like that when I can't reproduce it myself. Have you checked that Java is at the latest version (Java 6, Update 7)? If you're still having problems, PM me and I'll see what I can do.

Kirk Bevins wrote:What are the items in the inventory - the blue goat, the orange goat and the Benjamins?

You have to work it out! Try looking at what stuff other people have.

Jon O'Neill · Post by **Jon O'Neill** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:12 pm

jimbentley wrote:I think this might be because my computer's shit, though, or because I'm shit at clicking things with mice.

You could be right in the latter; this threw me off at first. You have to keep your mouse ABSOLUTELY STILL when you click the number, or it won't work. Maybe try that a bit and if it's still not working, Charlie will fix it.

Dinos Sfyris · Post by **Dinos Sfyris** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:20 pm

Kirk Bevins wrote:What are the items in the inventory - the blue goat, the orange goat and the Benjamins? I think this may need to be added to the FAQ as it's a frequent question (I'll ask it 24 more times if necessary).

EDIT: Before anyone asks - 25 is an arbitrary number I picked for the number of questions to make it a FAQ.

I have just one blue goat. Clearly very misrepresentative, I'm Greek!

Nick Wainwright · Post by **Nick Wainwright** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:51 am

I tried it for the first time last night and was very impressed - well done Charlie!

I wouldn't recommend beginning with a turbo game wih Jono as it can take a few rounds to get used to the programme; I soon realised I didn't have time to write the letters down on a pad of paper.

I'll login again later today if anybody is available for a game.

Jon Corby · Post by **Jon Corby** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:48 am

I'd like to donate, but I'm locked out of my Paypal account (having not touched it for about 4 years and ignoring every email they've sent me asking me to confirm various things.) So Paypal is off.

Ideally I'd like to make my donation by stuffing it into the elastic of your spandex posing pouch while you gyrate erotically in front of me like the mercenary whore that you clearly are, but I have a feeling you will say 'no' to this.

Is there some kind of compromise we can reach between these two methods of payment?

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:30 am

Jon Corby wrote: Is there some kind of compromise we can reach between these two methods of payment?

Post me a cheque and a posing pouch. I knew I'd find a use for that webcam.

Kirk Bevins · Post by **Kirk Bevins** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:16 pm

Nice one that we can now read other people's games - but I noticed I could read other people's Duellist games. If this is possible to read *before* people actually have a go at the daily duel then this is obviously unfair. I'm not sure if this is possible though.

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:53 pm

Kirk Bevins wrote:Nice one that we can now read other people's games - but I noticed I could read other people's Duellist games. If this is possible to read *before* people actually have a go at the daily duel then this is obviously unfair. I'm not sure if this is possible though.

I'm ahead of you, Kirky darling -- it's not possible to read Duel games until the next day.

Jon Corby · Post by **Jon Corby** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:54 am

What about those people who live in Australia, when the next day is actually still today, or the day before yesterday or tomorrow or whatever? And Christmas is in Summer?

Jon Corby · Post by **Jon Corby** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:01 am

Can you please explain the points system for the Duel league thing please Chucky?

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:42 pm

Jon Corby wrote:Can you please explain the points system for the Duel league thing please Chucky?

Yeah, I should explain it somewhere on the site, but to answer you directly: the top person gets 5 points, then 3 for second, 2 third and 1 for fourth. Ties are left as ties (so several people can get the top spot, for example.)

Dinos Sfyris · Post by **Dinos Sfyris** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:52 pm

Kirk Bevins wrote:What are the items in the inventory - the blue goat, the orange goat and the Benjamins?

Just won a broken tie after beating Raccoon on a tie break conundrum. Would've probably realised that one earlier if I'd gotten one sooner, likewise for the century-awarded Benjamins. I'm guessing slippers are where you slip past your opponent on the final round. Not sure about the goats or the pencils, but I've got tons of pencils so I'd guess they're for beating your opponent on a round or spotting a Darren or something.

Dinos

Kirk Bevins · Post by **Kirk Bevins** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:28 pm

Dinos Sfyris wrote:. Not sure about the goats or the pencils, but I've got tons of pencils so I'd guess they're for beating your opponent on a round or spotting a Darren or something.

Dinos

Haha forever modest.

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:31 pm

Dinos Sfyris wrote:I've got tons of pencils so I'd guess they're for beating your opponent on a round or spotting a Darren or something.

Maybe you get one each time the conundrum crashes on you.

Jon O'Neill · Post by **Jon O'Neill** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:15 pm

Maybe he gets one every time I ram your mum.

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:07 pm

Brilliant site, I'd really like to donate not particularly to play against the robots, but because I don't want to leech off Reams's generosity while other people are paying.

Martin

Julian Fell · Post by **Julian Fell** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:35 pm

Yes, great work Charlie

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:44 pm

Joseph Bolas · Post by **Joseph Bolas** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:51 am

I know that because I haven't donated yet, that I can't view all the games that have been played, but I have noticed that I can only look at games now from yesterday, whereas over the weekend I could go back further than that.

I hope you don't mind me asking, but I am just curious as to why the Distant Past date has been brough forward.

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:16 am

Joseph Bolas wrote:I know that because I haven't donated yet, that I can't view all the games that have been played, but I have noticed that I can only look at games now from yesterday, whereas over the weekend I could go back further than that.

I hope you don't mind me asking, but I am just curious as to why the Distant Past date has been brough forward.

I don't mind you asking, but the answer is "mu" because it hasn't been brought forward. I think there was a bug that meant some games were viewable into the Distant Past, but that was never the intention. However in the spirit of generosity, I'll change it so that the COGST games are viewable forever.

Howard Somerset · Post by **Howard Somerset** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:03 am

Although I've mentioned a few things about apterous, I've not posted in the general feedback thread.

I think, with one or two reservations which are probably because I'm insufficiently familiar with it, that it's great.

Letters rounds - brilliant. Very easy to use. I was a bit alarmed at first, as the first two games I played were with the Daily Duel last weekend. The 30 seconds seemed to fly by. Then, when I finally played against a human, I realised that the clock for the Duel must've been going at double speed. Using the system for letters rounds is certainly as easy as using any other method, and best of all, I'm no more crap when using apterous than I am when watching tv, playing on msn, or at Co-events.

Numbers rounds - this is my main reservation. So far I'm finding it very difficult to use. Either I solve the problem quickly, and then can't work out how to enter it. Or, while entering it, hurriedly press the wrong button and then can't work out how to recover. Or concentrate so much on how to enter the solution that I forget to work out what the solution is. I desperately need loads of practice at this before I can play a competitive match, and am waiting for my money to arrive so that I can have access to the bots. Whether or not I ever get sufficiently dexterous with the mouse to be able to cope, I don't know. But I'll certainly give it a go.

Conundrum - a bit unknown here, cos I've not managed to solve one yet.

One thing I would appreciate. A chat window solely for the game being played, rather than a global one which can scroll very quickly at busy times. I realise that facility can always be provided by using msn at the same time, but having one built into apterous would be a bonus.

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:46 am

Howard Somerset wrote: Numbers rounds - this is my main reservation. So far I'm finding it very difficult to use. Either I solve the problem quickly, and then can't work out how to enter it. Or, while entering it, hurriedly press the wrong button and then can't work out how to recover. Or concentrate so much on how to enter the solution that I forget to work out what the solution is. I desperately need loads of practice at this before I can play a competitive match, and am waiting for my money to arrive so that I can have access to the bots. Whether or not I ever get sufficiently dexterous with the mouse to be able to cope, I don't know. But I'll certainly give it a go.

Yep, I take your point. All I can say is that it's fundamentally pretty difficult to explain a numbers round to a computer. However I am open to suggestions for interface improvements. My advice is to play some Friendly Mode games, which allow you to use the interface without the pressure of the Patience bar. Once you get to grips with the idea, it's not too bad. Also I meant to upgrade you straight away but I forgot, but I've done that now. The bank will sort out the money eventually.

Howard Somerset wrote: One thing I would appreciate. A chat window solely for the game being played, rather than a global one which can scroll very quickly at busy times. I realise that facility can always be provided by using msn at the same time, but having one built into apterous would be a bonus.

You're not the first person to suggest this. To be honest it wouldn't be that difficult, it's just a question of working out where to put it on the screen.

Joseph Bolas · Post by **Joseph Bolas** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:42 pm

Charlie Reams wrote:
Joseph Bolas wrote:I know that because I haven't donated yet, that I can't view all the games that have been played, but I have noticed that I can only look at games now from yesterday, whereas over the weekend I could go back further than that.

I hope you don't mind me asking, but I am just curious as to why the Distant Past date has been brough forward.
I don't mind you asking, but the answer is "mu" because it hasn't been brought forward. I think there was a bug that meant some games were viewable into the Distant Past, but that was never the intention. However in the spirit of generosity, I'll change it so that the COGST games are viewable forever.

Speaking of generosity, I have worked out that I should be able to donate this weekend once I have completed set up of my Debit Card on Paypal

.

Howard Somerset · Post by **Howard Somerset** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:54 am

Charlie Reams wrote: My advice is to play some Friendly Mode games, which allow you to use the interface without the pressure of the Patience bar. Once you get to grips with the idea, it's not too bad. Also I meant to upgrade you straight away but I forgot, but I've done that now. The bank will sort out the money eventually.

Many thanks for the upgrade Charlie. I've just had a long session with the bot, and in a 20 round numbers game, think I only missed on 3 occasions. But of course that wasn't timed. I'll have a few more goes tomorrow, and then try it timed.

Apterous is certainly not good for my health; I should've been in bed long ago, as I need to be up by 7.am.

Thanks again.

Julian Fell · Post by **Julian Fell** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:26 pm

Charlie Reams wrote: However in the spirit of generosity, I'll change it so that the COGST games are viewable forever.

Ah right has this been done now Charlie? I asked about this in the Events forum without looking here first. It's definitely the right thing to do IMHO (and for all tournaments, not just COGST)

Totally agree with Howard about the separate-chat-windows-for-separate-games thing - at the moment everyone comments on his / her own game as they go along, it all gets thrown in together and none of the chat makes any sense unless you happen to be playing in or spectating on that particular game. So yes, would definitely be good if you could do that...

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:29 pm

Julian Fell wrote:Ah right has this been done now Charlie? I asked about this in the Events forum without looking here first. It's definitely the right thing to do IMHO (and for all tournaments, not just COGST)

I haven't got round to it yet.

Julian Fell wrote:Totally agree with Howard about the separate-chat-windows-for-separate-games thing - at the moment everyone comments on his / her own game as they go along, it all gets thrown in together and none of the chat makes any sense unless you happen to be playing in or spectating on that particular game. So yes, would definitely be good if you could do that...

It's usual to suggest features before I implement them rather than after!

Julian Fell · Post by **Julian Fell** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:49 pm

Fair enough! - when I said "at the moment", what I really meant was, "the last time I checked"

Joseph Bolas · Post by **Joseph Bolas** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:38 am

I don't know about anyone else, but I like the new design to the number puzzle solver. Not sure though if you should have to manually end the sum, by using that equal button (not unlike previously where it was automatically worked out and put in one of the 6 boxes).

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:24 am

Joseph Bolas wrote:Not sure though if you should have to manually end the sum, by using that equal button (not unlike previously where it was automatically worked out and put in one of the 6 boxes).

If not sure what you mean. If you remove that feature then it's basically identical to the previous one. The idea is that, if you bracket correctly, you should never have to use the equals button. But the equals button is there if you find you've backed yourself into a badly-bracketed corner.

Joseph Bolas · Post by **Joseph Bolas** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:58 pm

Charlie Reams wrote:I'm not sure what you mean. If you remove that feature then it's basically identical to the previous one. The idea is that, if you bracket correctly, you should never have to use the equals button. But the equals button is there if you find you've backed yourself into a badly-bracketed corner.

That does make sense.

So you understand what I meant, lets use an example problem: 100, 10, 5, 4, 3, 1 Target: 522

Old method solution:

Step 1. 100 + 4 = 104
Step 2. 104 x 5 = 520
Step 3. 3 - 1 = 2
Step 4. 520 + 2 = 522

New method solution:

Step 1: ((100 + 4) x 5) + (3 - 1)= 522

After playing alot of Coundown on Facebook, I just got used to the method of doing a single step sum and then the number automatically appearing in the boxes without having to press equal, (so for example, in the old method, after step one, the boxes would look something like: 104, 10, 5, 3, 1) ready to do the next step and so on.

I really shouldn't forget to use the equal after each step, but I daren't use the brackets, because I know I would get confused and mess up the solution trying to do it in one go

Joseph Bolas · Post by **Joseph Bolas** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:32 pm

Would I be right in saying that you get a pencil whenever you get a maximum on a word round, that also matches what your opponent gets?

EDIT: Nope, I don't think I am right. Although it is to do with maximums, I know that much.

Ben Wilson · Post by **Ben Wilson** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:35 pm

Is it just me, or is Plum a lot stronger on speed games than he 'should' be? Certainly a lot stronger than Caesar.

Joseph Bolas · Post by **Joseph Bolas** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:36 pm

Ben Wilson wrote:Is it just me, or is Plum a lot stronger on speed games than he 'should' be? Certainly a lot stronger than Caesar.

According to the News section, it says that,

Apterous News - 30th September 2008 wrote:Bots not quite so weak at shorter round lengths now.

so this could be why.

Jon Corby · Post by **Jon Corby** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:02 am

Joseph Bolas wrote:so this could be why.

I think Ben means he's stronger on speed rounds than the better bots.

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:37 pm

I can't imagine this being true, the equations that control the bot difficulty level are fairly straightforward. However they are probabilistic so even Prune will very occasionally have a really strong game (just like a human might.) You'd need to gather some more-than-anecdotal evidence to convince me.

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:53 pm

Charlie Reams wrote:I can't imagine this being true, the equations that control the bot difficulty level are fairly straightforward. However they are probabilistic so even Prune will very occasionally have a really strong game (just like a human might.) You'd need to gather some more-than-anecdotal evidence to convince me.

How about an option to pit bots against each other?

Joseph Bolas · Post by **Joseph Bolas** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:35 pm

I think I read this correctly, but are you allowed to compete against someone else on the Duel (and not the Duellist)?

I think I saw in the list of days game that have been played, one day, a Duel between the Bevins.

Ian Volante · Post by **Ian Volante** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:44 pm

I find it much harder to play Plum than Caesar. Does anyone else?

Joseph Bolas · Post by **Joseph Bolas** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:49 pm

Ian Volante wrote:I find it much harder to play Plum than Caesar. Does anyone else?

I play Waldorf for now, until I feel confident to move up to the next bot in line.

I also find with Waldorf that you can still afford to have one or two disallowed words on the rounds and still win, just about

Ben Wilson · Post by **Ben Wilson** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:25 pm

Ian Volante wrote:I find it much harder to play Plum than Caesar. Does anyone else?

Already well-documented mate, in this very thread no less.

Joseph Bolas · Post by **Joseph Bolas** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:45 pm

If you were to class the bots as humans, going by the performance, word/number spots etc. What players would be the equivalent of the bots?

Kirk Bevins · Post by **Kirk Bevins** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:59 pm

Joseph Bolas wrote:I think I read this correctly, but are you allowed to compete against someone else on the Duel (and not the Duellist)?

I think I saw in the list of days game that have been played, one day, a Duel between the Bevins.

I don't get you - what do you mean?

Joseph Bolas · Post by **Joseph Bolas** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:20 pm

Kirk Bevins wrote:
Joseph Bolas wrote:I think I read this correctly, but are you allowed to compete against someone else on the Duel (and not the Duellist)?

I think I saw in the list of days game that have been played, one day, a Duel between the Bevins.
I don't get you - what do you mean?

When you click on a link at the home page, you can see a table of all the games played on today's day and the scores that people got. I think I saw one day a game listed in the table between yourself and Keith, but instead of a score in the middle of the names (where you would click to view the game) it said Duel instead.

Kirk Bevins · Post by **Kirk Bevins** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:56 am

Joseph Bolas wrote:
Kirk Bevins wrote:
Joseph Bolas wrote:I think I read this correctly, but are you allowed to compete against someone else on the Duel (and not the Duellist)?

I think I saw in the list of days game that have been played, one day, a Duel between the Bevins.
I don't get you - what do you mean?
When you click on a link at the home page, you can see a table of all the games played on today's day and the scores that people got. I think I saw one day a game listed in the table between yourself and Keith, but instead of a score in the middle of the names (where you would click to view the game) it said Duel instead.

Ah, I'm with you now. That would have been a mistake on apterous' part as duels can only be played singly AFAIK

Ian Volante · Post by **Ian Volante** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:14 pm

Ben Wilson wrote:
Ian Volante wrote:I find it much harder to play Plum than Caesar. Does anyone else?
Already well-documented mate, in this very thread no less.

I'm talking in general really, I rarely play speed games.

Joseph Bolas · Post by **Joseph Bolas** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:32 am

Kirk Bevins wrote:
Joseph Bolas wrote:
Kirk Bevins wrote:I don't get you - what do you mean?
When you click on a link at the home page, you can see a table of all the games played on today's day and the scores that people got. I think I saw one day a game listed in the table between yourself and Keith, but instead of a score in the middle of the names (where you would click to view the game) it said Duel instead.
Ah, I'm with you now. That would have been a mistake on apterous' part as duels can only be played singly AFAIK

It must've been then a proper game then, and the scores were just replaced with the word duel.

Paul Howe · Post by **Paul Howe** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:57 pm

Am I the only one who feels slightly dirty about spectating games now that your presence is announced to the players?

You could create a more genuine Orwellian atmosphere by announcing"Someone is watching you", at random intervals, regardless of whether someone was actually watching or not.

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:05 pm

Paul Howe wrote:You could create a more genuine Orwellian atmosphere by announcing"Someone is watching you", at random intervals, regardless of whether someone was actually watching or not.

This totally belongs in Feature Requests.

Jimmy Gough · Post by **Jimmy Gough** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:55 am

I think the game's is absolutely amazing

Don't really know what to add but it is so great, thanks a lot.

Can I donate despite not having a chequebook or a paypal account?

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:31 pm

Jimmy wrote:I think the game's is absolutely amazing Don't really know what to add but it is so great, thanks a lot.

Can I donate despite not having a chequebook or a paypal account?

Offer a sacrifice to Charlie. Or a postal order.

Ian Volante · Post by **Ian Volante** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:59 pm

I'm sure payment in kind would be welcome.

Joseph Bolas · Post by **Joseph Bolas** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:00 pm

If you are guest, when you view the home page for the countdown forum, you actually don't see the Apterous.org sub-forum listed in the "Countdown - Community" section. General curiosity really, but why is that?

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:14 pm

Joseph Bolas wrote:If you are guest, when you view the home page for the countdown forum, you actually don't see the Apterous.org sub-forum listed in the "Countdown - Community" section. General curiosity really, but why is that?

I think Charlie wanted to keep Apterous away from a wider audience until the bugs were ironed out.

Phil Reynolds · Post by **Phil Reynolds** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:07 pm

In the list of online players, why are some names in bold and others not? What's the difference?

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:27 pm

Phil Reynolds wrote:In the list of online players, why are some names in bold and others not? What's the difference?

Unless there's a bug, the only name in bold is your own.

Ian Volante · Post by **Ian Volante** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:40 pm

I notice the font changing sometimes.

Phil Reynolds · Post by **Phil Reynolds** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:46 pm

Charlie Reams wrote:
Phil Reynolds wrote:In the list of online players, why are some names in bold and others not? What's the difference?
Unless there's a bug, the only name in bold is your own.

There's a bug.

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:21 am

Phil Reynolds wrote:
Charlie Reams wrote:
Phil Reynolds wrote:In the list of online players, why are some names in bold and others not? What's the difference?
Unless there's a bug, the only name in bold is your own.
There's a bug.

Anyone else seeing this? I'm looking now and it seems none of the names are in bold.