Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Official forum of apterous.org, the website which allows you to play against other people over the Internet.
Post Reply
User avatar
Ben Wilson
Legend
Posts: 4539
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:05 pm
Location: North Hykeham

Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Ben Wilson »

This sort of crap needs to stop. That's a given. I love hyper- and seeing how popular Junior has become it's kinda disappointing more people don't love it too. However, of course, the fallibility of the dictionary, as demonstrated in my link, could well be a major factor in putting people off. Certainly, it's stopped me from ever proposing a hyper-based tournament of any kind.

So, rather than get linked to Charlie's 'type out the dictionary' post for the umpteenth time, I suggest we do something about it. Namely, type out the dictionary.

Whoa, hold on a tick. There are hundreds of registered users on apterous, and while hyper only makes up 1 in every 60 games played, there are still people who enjoy the odd game. So what I'm proposing, simply, is this- divide the workload. If spread over 30 people and over the course of a month, the entirety of the 10-12 lexicon won't be too heavy to do. The ODE2r has 2100 pages in it so that'd be all of 2 pages a night for everyone involved. Not that much to ask surely?
User avatar
Charlie Reams
Site Admin
Posts: 9494
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:33 pm
Location: Cambridge
Contact:

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Charlie Reams »

I'd definitely be keen.
User avatar
Innis Carson
Devotee
Posts: 898
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:24 pm

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Innis Carson »

I'd happily help with this as well.
Last edited by Innis Carson on Wed May 27, 2009 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Ben Hunter
Kiloposter
Posts: 1770
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:54 pm
Location: S Yorks

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Ben Hunter »

I'll muck in.
Paul Howe
Kiloposter
Posts: 1070
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:25 pm

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Paul Howe »

I like hyper too, and want to see it improved.

Unfortunately I don't own an ODE, but if anyone can think of a way I could help I'll happily pitch in.
User avatar
Charlie Reams
Site Admin
Posts: 9494
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:33 pm
Location: Cambridge
Contact:

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Charlie Reams »

Paul Howe wrote:I like hyper too, and want to see it improved.

Unfortunately I don't own an ODE, but if anyone can think of a way I could help I'll happily pitch in.
If you've got an out-of-date copy that'd be good enough, no one cares that much about the details.
User avatar
Jon Corby
Moral Hero
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Jon Corby »

Rats. Somebody - let's call him Dr X - once had all 92,000 dictionary entries saved electronically from the website for the ODE2r, plus some code which tried to read each page and produce a list of words which should be added to the dictionary file from it (ie conjugating verbs, pluralising non-mass nouns etc). It wasn't perfect (mostly due to the inconsistencies of the formatting etc, plus the stupid programmer forgetting to cater for accented characters). Anyway, you'd step through each page in turn, and it would show you the dictionary entry, plus the list of words it thought should be extracted, and you'd eyeball it and approve or amend the list. Obviously it automatically ignored anything over nine letters, something which could have easily been changed. It really did make a horrific task not-quite-as-bad-at-all.

Unfortunately I think Dr X deleted the code and the pages, and didn't archive them anywhere. How foolish.
User avatar
Charlie Reams
Site Admin
Posts: 9494
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:33 pm
Location: Cambridge
Contact:

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Charlie Reams »

Jon Corby wrote:Rats. Somebody - let's call him Dr X - once had all 92,000 dictionary entries saved electronically from the website for the ODE2r, plus some code which tried to read each page and produce a list of words which should be added to the dictionary file from it (ie conjugating verbs, pluralising non-mass nouns etc). It wasn't perfect (mostly due to the inconsistencies of the formatting etc, plus the stupid programmer forgetting to cater for accented characters). Anyway, you'd step through each page in turn, and it would show you the dictionary entry, plus the list of words it thought should be extracted, and you'd eyeball it and approve or amend the list. Obviously it automatically ignored anything over nine letters, something which could have easily been changed. It really did make a horrific task not-quite-as-bad-at-all.

Unfortunately I think Dr X deleted the code and the pages, and didn't archive them anywhere. How foolish.
I have the pages and could probably recreate the code, which would then just require us to check the list against the dictionary, which is much easier than typing it out.
User avatar
Jon Corby
Moral Hero
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Jon Corby »

Charlie Reams wrote:I have the pages and could probably recreate the code, which would then just require us to check the list against the dictionary, which is much easier than typing it out.
Why have you been whining about people needing to type in the dictionary for months then? Get on with it, you fucking baby.

Honestly, some people. :roll:
JackHurst
Series 63 Champion
Posts: 1986
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:40 pm

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by JackHurst »

Hyper is probably my favourite variation, it would be great if the dictionary for larger words was updated. Good idea! If i had the correct dictionary i'd like to help, but unfortunately i only have collins concise family dictionary which contains about 8 word!

If the update did happen, I'd be very impressed to see if anyone could get an 18 letter word in hyper unlimited. I know there is at least one word 18 letters long that only consists of 9 different letters. :D
User avatar
Charlie Reams
Site Admin
Posts: 9494
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:33 pm
Location: Cambridge
Contact:

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Charlie Reams »

JackHurst wrote:I know there is at least one word 18 letters long that only consists of 9 different letters. :D
That would be pretty awesome. What is it?
User avatar
Charlie Reams
Site Admin
Posts: 9494
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:33 pm
Location: Cambridge
Contact:

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Charlie Reams »

Jon Corby wrote:
Charlie Reams wrote:I have the pages and could probably recreate the code, which would then just require us to check the list against the dictionary, which is much easier than typing it out.
Why have you been whining about people needing to type in the dictionary for months then? Get on with it, you fucking baby.

Honestly, some people. :roll:
Imagine if I did it all and then lost it again. Then I'd look really retarded.
JackHurst
Series 63 Champion
Posts: 1986
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:40 pm

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by JackHurst »

Charlie Reams wrote:
JackHurst wrote:I know there is at least one word 18 letters long that only consists of 9 different letters. :D
That would be pretty awesome. What is it?
INTRADOS + P (with hyper unlimited catalyst) ---> DISPROPORTIONATION

Learnt about it in chemistry the other week, and all I could think was " That would be an awesome spot on hyper unlimited!!"
User avatar
Jon Corby
Moral Hero
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Jon Corby »

Charlie Reams wrote:
Jon Corby wrote:
Charlie Reams wrote:I have the pages and could probably recreate the code, which would then just require us to check the list against the dictionary, which is much easier than typing it out.
Why have you been whining about people needing to type in the dictionary for months then? Get on with it, you fucking baby.

Honestly, some people. :roll:
Imagine if I did it all and then lost it again. Then I'd look really retarded.
Poor Dr X :(
JackHurst
Series 63 Champion
Posts: 1986
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:40 pm

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by JackHurst »

http://www.apterous.org/viewgame.php?game=67733

Would have Been a PB if DOGMATIZES was allowed :(
Not sure if it was disallowed cos its not a word, or cos its missing from the list of allowed words.
User avatar
Craig Beevers
Series 57 Champion
Posts: 653
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 am
Contact:

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Craig Beevers »

Am I missing something in round 7? The numbers is easily doable (7+5 x 10 = 120, +8 = 128, 128x50 = 6400, 6400-5+4 = 6399) yet the max is 7 points.
User avatar
Jon Corby
Moral Hero
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Jon Corby »

Easily. Yes.
User avatar
Ben Wilson
Legend
Posts: 4539
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:05 pm
Location: North Hykeham

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Ben Wilson »

Bump, if only to show I'm still actively working on solving the problem. Volunteers (or electronic version owners) make yourselves known.

Edit: Especially after it cost me a pb and a near-record.
User avatar
Maxine Silkstone
Rookie
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 4:42 am
Location: Saudi Arabia

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Maxine Silkstone »

I'll volunteer, but not sure I'm any use out here. No OED, and I have the small hand held electronic game, but not sure that's what you mean as it only does 9 letters. If there's any way I can help, then count me in. Never once played Hyper, but when I do get round to it, I can see how frustrating it would be.
User avatar
JimBentley
Fanatic
Posts: 2820
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:39 pm
Contact:

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by JimBentley »

Ben Wilson wrote:Bump, if only to show I'm still actively working on solving the problem. Volunteers (or electronic version owners) make yourselves known.
Wasn't sure this was still going ahead, but if it is, I'm happy to do some work on it. My ODE is a couple of editions old (2003, 2nd edition unrevised), but I doubt anything important has changed in the 10-12sphere since then. Just let me know what to cover and I'll get right on it.
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13215
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Solution to the problem - don't invent the game.
User avatar
Ben Wilson
Legend
Posts: 4539
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:05 pm
Location: North Hykeham

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Ben Wilson »

Gavin Chipper wrote:Solution to the problem - don't invent the game.
Thanks for the advice.
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13215
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Ben Wilson wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote:Solution to the problem - don't invent the game.
Thanks for the advice.
Yeah I know. ;)
User avatar
Ben Wilson
Legend
Posts: 4539
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:05 pm
Location: North Hykeham

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Ben Wilson »

Okay, in so far:

Ben Wilson (aka me)
Charlie Reams
Jim Bentley
Innis Carson
Ben Hunter
Paul Howe
Jon Corby

moral support:

Jack Hurst
Maxine Silkstone

To put it in proportion there are just about 2100 pages of words in the ODE2r. Divvying up 300 each between 7 people is easy enough, as if we all took 5 a night we'd be done in 2 months. This of course assumes we'd all be able to do 5 pages a night, which ain't guaranteed by a long shot (work and uni commitments etc). I want to get started on this at some point though so any more volunteers would be most welcome.
User avatar
Jon Corby
Moral Hero
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Jon Corby »

I don't remember volunteering for anything :?
User avatar
Charlie Reams
Site Admin
Posts: 9494
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:33 pm
Location: Cambridge
Contact:

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Charlie Reams »

Jon Corby wrote:I don't remember volunteering for anything :?
I remember you volunteering, you volunteered for me to do everything.
Matt Bayfield
Devotee
Posts: 539
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 8:39 am
Location: Seated at a computer

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Matt Bayfield »

Quick question, sort of related to this thread, but more appropriate to Unlimited than Hyper variants: could anyone tell me, does the current apterous lexicon include words longer than 12 letters?

I do quite enjoy the occasional game of Unlimited, but on the rare occasions I find one, I'm never sure whether to risk a word 13 letters and over. For example, is REENGINEERING not listed simply because it exceeds 12 letters, or because that particular word is hyphenated or not listed in ODE?

And back on topic, as much as I appreciate the work that's gone into apterous for our enjoyment, I'm afraid I'm not about to volunteer with the dictionary typing. Well, I wouldn't mind helping out for a couple of hours, but I'm not up for typing every evening for 2 months, or even a week, for a variant (Hyper) I almost never play and for word lengths that I'm rarely talented enough to spot! Sorry if that makes me a git, Ben, although in my defence at least I'm being open rather than keeping quiet...
User avatar
Jon Corby
Moral Hero
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Jon Corby »

Matt Bayfield wrote:Quick question, sort of related to this thread, but more appropriate to Unlimited than Hyper variants: could anyone tell me, does the current apterous lexicon include words longer than 12 letters?

I do quite enjoy the occasional game of Unlimited, but on the rare occasions I find one, I'm never sure whether to risk a word 13 letters and over. For example, is REENGINEERING not listed simply because it exceeds 12 letters, or because that particular word is hyphenated or not listed in ODE?

And back on topic, as much as I appreciate the work that's gone into apterous for our enjoyment, I'm afraid I'm not about to volunteer with the dictionary typing. Well, I wouldn't mind helping out for a couple of hours, but I'm not up for typing every evening for 2 months, or even a week, for a variant (Hyper) I almost never play and for word lengths that I'm rarely talented enough to spot! Sorry if that makes me a git, Ben, although in my defence at least I'm being open rather than keeping quiet...
Git.
Matt Bayfield
Devotee
Posts: 539
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 8:39 am
Location: Seated at a computer

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Matt Bayfield »

Guilty as charged! :D
User avatar
Maxine Silkstone
Rookie
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 4:42 am
Location: Saudi Arabia

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Maxine Silkstone »

Ben Wilson wrote:Okay, in so far:

Ben Wilson (aka me)
Charlie Reams
Jim Bentley
Innis Carson
Ben Hunter
Paul Howe
Jon Corby

moral support:

Jack Hurst
Maxine Silkstone

To put it in proportion there are just about 2100 pages of words in the ODE2r. Divvying up 300 each between 7 people is easy enough, as if we all took 5 a night we'd be done in 2 months. This of course assumes we'd all be able to do 5 pages a night, which ain't guaranteed by a long shot (work and uni commitments etc). I want to get started on this at some point though so any more volunteers would be most welcome.
I am in the delightful position of being the proud owner of a brand new shiny ODE, God Bless Jarir bookshop and all who sail in her. So move me up to the top list Ben, something I do have a little more of than most is time.
User avatar
Kai Laddiman
Fanatic
Posts: 2314
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:37 pm
Location: My bedroom

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Kai Laddiman »

If really needed, I will aid your quest, having had BIOSPHERES disallowed myself.
16/10/2007 - Episode 4460
Dinos Sfyris 76 - 78 Dorian Lidell
Proof that even idiots can get well and truly mainwheeled.
User avatar
Charlie Reams
Site Admin
Posts: 9494
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:33 pm
Location: Cambridge
Contact:

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Charlie Reams »

Matt Bayfield wrote: I do quite enjoy the occasional game of Unlimited, but on the rare occasions I find one, I'm never sure whether to risk a word 13 letters and over. For example, is REENGINEERING not listed simply because it exceeds 12 letters, or because that particular word is hyphenated or not listed in ODE?
I believe that nothing in the current Apterous lexicon exceeds 12 letters. This is something we might as well address while fixing general Hyperness, just in case of an Ultrahyper variant one day in the future.
User avatar
Kai Laddiman
Fanatic
Posts: 2314
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:37 pm
Location: My bedroom

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Kai Laddiman »

Charlie Reams wrote:
Matt Bayfield wrote: I do quite enjoy the occasional game of Unlimited, but on the rare occasions I find one, I'm never sure whether to risk a word 13 letters and over. For example, is REENGINEERING not listed simply because it exceeds 12 letters, or because that particular word is hyphenated or not listed in ODE?
I believe that nothing in the current Apterous lexicon exceeds 12 letters. This is something we might as well address while fixing general Hyperness, just in case of an Ultrahyper variant one day in the future.
UNCONSCIOUSNESSES...
16/10/2007 - Episode 4460
Dinos Sfyris 76 - 78 Dorian Lidell
Proof that even idiots can get well and truly mainwheeled.
User avatar
JimBentley
Fanatic
Posts: 2820
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:39 pm
Contact:

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by JimBentley »

Kai Laddiman wrote:
Charlie Reams wrote:
Matt Bayfield wrote: I do quite enjoy the occasional game of Unlimited, but on the rare occasions I find one, I'm never sure whether to risk a word 13 letters and over. For example, is REENGINEERING not listed simply because it exceeds 12 letters, or because that particular word is hyphenated or not listed in ODE?
I believe that nothing in the current Apterous lexicon exceeds 12 letters. This is something we might as well address while fixing general Hyperness, just in case of an Ultrahyper variant one day in the future.
UNCONSCIOUSNESSES...
Yep, and TINTINNABULATIONS would be another nice possibility for Hyper Unlimited. I wonder what the longest possible one is?

I'd taken it as read that we'd just list anything longer than 9 anyway.
Jimmy Gough
Devotee
Posts: 876
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 4:08 pm
Location: Eastbourne

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Jimmy Gough »

Yeah, I'd like to help. It's the least I could do.
JackHurst
Series 63 Champion
Posts: 1986
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:40 pm

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by JackHurst »

JimBentley wrote: Yep, and TINTINNABULATIONS would be another nice possibility for Hyper Unlimited. I wonder what the longest possible one is?

I'd taken it as read that we'd just list anything longer than 9 anyway.
I posted this somewhere else, but DISPROPORTIONATION is just about the longest words i know, and you could have it in hyper unlimited for 18. If you can pluralise it, id would be worth 19.

Another good chemistry word that you can make from very few letters is STEREOISMOERISM.
Matt Bayfield
Devotee
Posts: 539
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 8:39 am
Location: Seated at a computer

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Matt Bayfield »

Charlie Reams wrote:I believe that nothing in the current Apterous lexicon exceeds 12 letters. This is something we might as well address while fixing general Hyperness, just in case of an Ultrahyper variant one day in the future.
Thanks for the clarification, Charlie.
User avatar
Jon Corby
Moral Hero
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Jon Corby »

Jimmy Gough wrote:Yeah, I'd like to help. It's the least I could do.
The least I can do is absolutely nothing, which is what I plan to do.
User avatar
Matt Morrison
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7822
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:27 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Matt Morrison »

Jon Corby wrote:
Jimmy Gough wrote:Yeah, I'd like to help. It's the least I could do.
The least I can do is absolutely nothing, which is what I plan to do.
You could theoretically contribute even less by going round to every C4C member's house and burning their copies of the ODE.
User avatar
Maxine Silkstone
Rookie
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 4:42 am
Location: Saudi Arabia

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Maxine Silkstone »

Given the fairytale ordeal and ridiculous amount of Riyals this one just cost me, you come near mine and you will lose vital parts of your anatomy. Grrrrrr.
Jimmy Gough
Devotee
Posts: 876
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 4:08 pm
Location: Eastbourne

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Jimmy Gough »

Jon Corby wrote:
Jimmy Gough wrote:Yeah, I'd like to help. It's the least I could do.
The least I can do is absolutely nothing, which is what I plan to do.
Yeah.
User avatar
Ben Wilson
Legend
Posts: 4539
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:05 pm
Location: North Hykeham

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Ben Wilson »

Sitrep: Volunteers so far:

Ben Wilson (aka me)
Charlie Reams
Jim Bentley
Innis Carson
Ben Hunter
Paul Howe
Maxine Silkstone
Kai Laddiman
Jimmy Gough

9 people works out at about 240 pages each. 15 people would work out at 140 pages each which is a much less daunting total. Either way, I'd like to get cracking the second week of July, with a view to finishing around the end of August.

And to clarify- words want to be typed out in a plain text file, one word per line. American spellings are to be disallowed, and common sense to be used on mass nouns. If there are words that could go either way, list them in a separate file. All the words want emailing to Charlie- he's the one who's going to implement them after all, so it also makes sense to have him offering judgement over mass nounage.

If you want to get cracking now, feel free to do so, just pick a page at random and I'll work your 'quota' around it.
User avatar
Charlie Reams
Site Admin
Posts: 9494
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:33 pm
Location: Cambridge
Contact:

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Charlie Reams »

Ben Wilson wrote: And to clarify- words want to be typed out in a plain text file, one word per line.
We can do much better than that. Give me some time to make the tools. Then we'll go to work.
Simon Myers
Enthusiast
Posts: 295
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:41 am
Location: Stamford, Connecticut

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Simon Myers »

I'll help. I have only a nODE but Charlie reassures me that should be fine.
User avatar
Kai Laddiman
Fanatic
Posts: 2314
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:37 pm
Location: My bedroom

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Kai Laddiman »

I could start pretty soon. Shall I do, say, the first 10 pages of A?
16/10/2007 - Episode 4460
Dinos Sfyris 76 - 78 Dorian Lidell
Proof that even idiots can get well and truly mainwheeled.
User avatar
Charlie Reams
Site Admin
Posts: 9494
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:33 pm
Location: Cambridge
Contact:

Re: Hypercountdown- solution to the problem

Post by Charlie Reams »

Post Reply