Ratings

Official forum of apterous.org, the website which allows you to play against other people over the Internet.
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Carl Harrison
Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:41 am

Ratings

Post by Carl Harrison » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:01 pm

As a relative newbie to the world of Apterous, I'd appreciate some answers to questions I have on the Ratings system. I've seen the sticky thread "How Ratings work" (http://www.c4countdown.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1050) but couldn't quite work things out from there, and searched the site without coming to an answer - so apologies if I've missed something obvious, but I expect other new people may wonder similar thing.

My main question is around the differences between what seems to be two different ratings systems - the "Pro Rank" (which you can see on each user's profile along with a complete list) and the rolling rating system (which is what seems to be displayed by each name when looking to see who is online at any moment).

So I am wondering why are these numbers different, (at a very high level) how are they calculated differently, do they both use the same base data (e.g. is it only human games in 15-rounders which count, or do games against the bots count towards ratings in either system?), which is more reliable, and just why are there 2 different systems when it might seen simpler to just have one? At the end of each game played I can see the impact on a player's rolling rating, but not on the ProRanks - but I'm not sure if they work in the same way, or are very different. Which do people actually look at and rely on more?

I'm sure there's an obvious (and probably easily accessible) answer to all of this, but I haven't been able to work it out - thanks!

Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Ratings

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:56 pm

Well, I'm not sure there is a simple answer, but you can start off by reading through this Apterous ticket to see what people's opinions are on the two different systems.

Phil H
Rookie
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:52 pm

Re: Ratings

Post by Phil H » Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:41 am

I don't know why so many people seem to poo-poo the relevance of rolling ratings. I mean, it suits me in a way, because according to ProRanks I was better than Conor or Kirk the last time I looked, but clearly that's bollocks.

Carl Harrison
Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:41 am

Re: Ratings

Post by Carl Harrison » Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:30 am

Thanks - all a bit confusing! - but I like your quote on that ticket, which I would say remains true to this day based on my experience.... "If I was new to Apterous, I'd be thinking "What on Earth's going on with these rating systems?" " :)

From what I can tell, the rolling ratings used to include results from games against bots, but since 2012 no longer do so - and hence they are essentially based on the same games, human v human only - with the exception that ProRanks are based on traditional 15-round games only, whereas the rolling ratings are based on all formats. Is that right?

If so, I can't fathom why the relative scores between the two formats are so different, e.g. my current ProRank seems to make me ranked quite a bit higher than some people who have a much better rolling rank than me. Is this just down to the calculation methods being different? - e.g. I see "Pro Ranks decrease gradually if a player becomes inactive" - maybe that is't the case with rolling rankings?

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Jon O'Neill
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Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:45 am
Location: London, UK

Re: Ratings

Post by Jon O'Neill » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:03 am

Carl Harrison wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:30 am
Thanks - all a bit confusing! - but I like your quote on that ticket, which I would say remains true to this day based on my experience.... "If I was new to Apterous, I'd be thinking "What on Earth's going on with these rating systems?" " :)

From what I can tell, the rolling ratings used to include results from games against bots, but since 2012 no longer do so - and hence they are essentially based on the same games, human v human only - with the exception that ProRanks are based on traditional 15-round games only, whereas the rolling ratings are based on all formats. Is that right?

If so, I can't fathom why the relative scores between the two formats are so different, e.g. my current ProRank seems to make me ranked quite a bit higher than some people who have a much better rolling rank than me. Is this just down to the calculation methods being different? - e.g. I see "Pro Ranks decrease gradually if a player becomes inactive" - maybe that is't the case with rolling rankings?
I think there's a rolling ranking per variant.
You are right that the gradual decrease will affect ProRanks as well.
A lot of the people who have a higher rating than you will not play many 15-rounders.

Dan Byrom
Rookie
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Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:42 pm

Re: Ratings

Post by Dan Byrom » Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:47 am

Phil H wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:41 am
I don't know why so many people seem to poo-poo the relevance of rolling ratings. I mean, it suits me in a way, because according to ProRanks I was better than Conor or Kirk the last time I looked, but clearly that's bollocks.
I find rolling ratings to be a better indicator of how tight (and hence how exciting) a game will be. There's a large quantity of sporadic players whose pro ranks have been heavily affected by inactivity, but are still great opponents!

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