CoLei5 - Saturday 14 April 2012

Discussion and announcements relating to unofficial Countdown competitions, held online or in real life. Observation, discussion, reflection, and other stuff ending in -ion.
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James Robinson
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CoLei5 - Saturday 14 April 2012

Post by James Robinson » Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:35 am

As you might've seen and heard, there was a Countdown in Leicester yesterday, just a week after the very successful CO:REA down south.

20 competitors from far and wide participated, including 5 people (including myself) who went to Reading the week before.

As with all of Jeff Clayton's tournaments, the first 3 rounds were randomly-drawn 15-rounders.

My first 3 were against Mike Brown, Barry Evans, and Jon Wilford, a friend of Series 63 contestant Steven Turvey, who returned after competing last year.

After being behind for a good part against Mike, the tables were turned after I solved a 6 small, then got the niner PLACENTAE.

The second game against Barry was even tougher, mainly thanks to the fact that the letters seem to be rejumbled after every round, hence the high amount of X's, H's & J's. I won by the narrow margin of 6 points, thanks mainly to Barry having a quicker reflex action. But, there was controversy to come.......... Earlier in the game, Barry had SALINES disallowed, so at the end, we did a through dictionary check, but with it being declared as a mass noun in the ODE3, Jeff put his foot down and ruled that the result should stand, mainly due to the fact that it wasn't a compound or something like that. (I'm sure someone can make it clear.)

My 3rd game with Jon was less controversial, and I won by 48 points. So, after the 15-rounders, I was top of the standings. The only others to win 3 out of 3 were Jack Worsley & Matt Bayfield. The rest of the top 8 was made up of Richard Priest, Mike Brown, Stewart Gordon, Shrinidhi Prakash and Karen Pearson.

So, in the quarters, I had Karen, and immediately the game seemed to be put to bed when I got the niner TOLERATED, meaning that Karen had to try some desperate measures to try and get back in, but they didn't work, and I won with a nice score of 75. :)

In the semis, it was the umpteenth rematch with Matt Bayfield, and thanks to my early spot of URODELES, Matt was playing catch-up all the way through, but the gap never extended or contracted, so it went to a crucial, and luckily I solved BENDUSTWO in a second, to set up another CO-event final with Rich Priest. 8-)

The final, as you would expect was high tempo, and with Andy Platt using the solver to see how we were going, we were amazed to find that we maxed all 8 letters rounds, but unfortunately for Rich he only got 1 of the 4 numbers games........... So, after I got the first conundrum too, the final conundrum was for that very rare chance to get a MAX GAME in a CO-event final. But, I was nowhere near solving ATOMCHICA, but Rich had the last laugh, solving it with 4 seconds to go, so the match 103-73 in my favour.

It was another fantastic event, and I'm so over the moon to win my 3rd CO-event out of the last 4 events. ;) :) :D

Luckily for all you guys, since the next event is COHUD, someone else will get their day in the sun soon. :lol: 8-)
WE ARE PREMIER LEAGUE!!!
UP THE MIGHTY TERRIERS!!! ;) :) :D :mrgreen: 8-)

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Re: CoLei5 - Saturday 14 April 2012

Post by Matt Morrison » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:08 am

James Robinson wrote:...luckily I solved BENDUSTWO in a second...
James Robinson wrote:...I was nowhere near solving ATOMCHICA...
Ok, it's probably only me, but I get so annoyed with people doing this. If I take the time to read your long post, I don't expect to have to put more work in to then go and look up the answers to your conundrums. (Invariably after thinking for a second or so, "BENDUSTWO? My god that is an insane word" before realising that is the scramble.) Maybe just me, but it pisses me off when I'm putting in the effort and care to read so there.

But amazing stuff James, well done. You're a true Co-event legend, proper elite. Keep it up!

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Re: CoLei5 - Saturday 14 April 2012

Post by Graeme Cole » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:21 am

Matt Morrison wrote:
James Robinson wrote:...luckily I solved BENDUSTWO in a second...
James Robinson wrote:...I was nowhere near solving ATOMCHICA...
Ok, it's probably only me, but I get so annoyed with people doing this. If I take the time to read your long post, I don't expect to have to put more work in to then go and look up the answers to your conundrums. (Invariably after thinking for a second or so, "BENDUSTWO? My god that is an insane word" before realising that is the scramble.) Maybe just me, but it pisses me off when I'm putting in the effort and care to read so there.
I think this is generally done so the reader can see if they can work it out themselves. James was probably thinking of people who like to work it out, and not spoiling them by posting the answers.
Matt Morrison wrote:But amazing stuff James, well done. You're a true Co-event legend, proper elite. Keep it up!
I echo this. Congratulations again James, twice in as many weeks. :-)

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Re: CoLei5 - Saturday 14 April 2012

Post by Matt Morrison » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:25 am

Graeme Cole wrote:I think this is generally done so the reader can see if they can work it out themselves. James was probably thinking of people who like to work it out, and not spoiling them by posting the answers.
Yup, totally. But then at least give it the spoiler answer in brackets that can't be read without highlighting. I'm not on about ruining it for anyone, I just come from a place where I'm more interested in enjoying James's win than doing conundrums myself.

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Re: CoLei5 - Saturday 14 April 2012

Post by Phil Reynolds » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:36 pm

Matt Morrison wrote:Ok, it's probably only me
It isn't.

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Re: CoLei5 - Saturday 14 April 2012

Post by Gavin Chipper » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:55 pm

Phil Reynolds wrote:
Matt Morrison wrote:Ok, it's probably only me
It isn't.
Me too.

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Re: CoLei5 - Saturday 14 April 2012

Post by Jennifer Steadman » Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:28 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Phil Reynolds wrote:
Matt Morrison wrote:Ok, it's probably only me
It isn't.
Me too.
And me.
🍆

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Re: CoLei5 - Saturday 14 April 2012

Post by Matt Morrison » Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:02 pm

Phew. :)

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Re: CoLei5 - Saturday 14 April 2012

Post by Innis Carson » Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:07 pm

I've never had a problem with this. It's not that difficult to look up the answer if you're interested, and since different people on here seem to have different ideas of how to conceal text effectively (see: Phil), some people would probably still have it spoiled accidentally for them anyway.

And yeah disallowing SALINES seems like the right thing to do.

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Re: CoLei5 - Saturday 14 April 2012

Post by Gavin Chipper » Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:40 pm

Innis Carson wrote:I've never had a problem with this. It's not that difficult to look up the answer if you're interested, and since different people on here seem to have different ideas of how to conceal text effectively (see: Phil), some people would probably still have it spoiled accidentally for them anyway.
It's probably less of a problem for you because you'd only have to look up about 1% of them. But a report of a game is just that. I don't feel the need to play along with every game that I read about - I like a self-contained report.

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Re: CoLei5 - Saturday 14 April 2012

Post by Phil Collinge » Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:12 pm

James Robinson wrote:As you might've seen and heard....
Where might we have seen or heard about this event James?

Jeff's events don't seem to be very well publicised.

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Re: CoLei5 - Saturday 14 April 2012

Post by Joseph Krol » Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:30 pm

James Robinson wrote:Barry had SALINES disallowed, so at the end, we did a through dictionary check, but with it being declared as a mass noun in the ODE3, Jeff put his foot down and ruled that the result should stand, mainly due to the fact that it wasn't a compound or something like that. (I'm sure someone can make it clear.)
As part of the independent adjudicating panel, I hope to provide a more detailed explanation of what happened.

We looked up SALINE in the ODE3.
We then noticed that it said [mass noun]. We then looked through the entry and discovered that SALINE is not a food or count noun.
I then vaguely remembered something in the front of the ODE3. I checked it and it said that chemical compounds are pluralizable.
Then a pharmacist, doctor and a guy in the middle of GCSE Chemistry had a conversation about whether saline solutions are compounds, and then realizing that they are two compounds (NaCl + H2O).
Despite Barry's claims that one can have multiple salines, we all concluded that it should not be allowed.
QED.
Image

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Re: CoLei5 - Saturday 14 April 2012

Post by Graeme Cole » Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:37 pm

Phil Collinge wrote:
James Robinson wrote:As you might've seen and heard....
Where might we have seen or heard about this event James?

Jeff's events don't seem to be very well publicised.
As far as I know it stems from when the private Sanctum forum was leaked a while ago (actually all the way back in 2010). Since then, Jeff hasn't publicised his events on here, and certain Sanctumites aren't invited to them. I met Jeff at Reading a few weeks ago. He seems a decent and likeable person, and of course it's up to him whom he invites to his events, but it still seems rather petty and political to me.

That said, COHUD, which Jeff is involved with, seems to be an exception.

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Re: CoLei5 - Saturday 14 April 2012

Post by Graeme Cole » Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:01 pm

Joseph Krol wrote:
James Robinson wrote:Barry had SALINES disallowed, so at the end, we did a through dictionary check, but with it being declared as a mass noun in the ODE3, Jeff put his foot down and ruled that the result should stand, mainly due to the fact that it wasn't a compound or something like that. (I'm sure someone can make it clear.)
As part of the independent adjudicating panel, I hope to provide a more detailed explanation of what happened.

We looked up SALINE in the ODE3.
We then noticed that it said [mass noun]. We then looked through the entry and discovered that SALINE is not a food or count noun.
I then vaguely remembered something in the front of the ODE3. I checked it and it said that chemical compounds are pluralizable.
Then a pharmacist, doctor and a guy in the middle of GCSE Chemistry had a conversation about whether saline solutions are compounds, and then realizing that they are two compounds (NaCl + H2O).
Despite Barry's claims that one can have multiple salines, we all concluded that it should not be allowed.
QED.
I think this is rather like TONNAGES - you could make arguments both in favour of allowing it and disallowing it. I'd probably come down on the side of disallowing it, as although two salt solutions containing different salts might reasonably be referred to as two different salines, if that were a common enough usage for it to be allowed then I'd expect the dictionary to have it as a count noun. It doesn't, and it doesn't give any other usage where it makes sense to pluralise it, so I'd say no.

(FWIW, Lexplorer disagrees.)

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Re: CoLei5 - Saturday 14 April 2012

Post by Phil Collinge » Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:04 pm

Graeme Cole wrote:As far as I know it stems from when the private Sanctum forum was leaked a while ago (actually all the way back in 2010). Since then, Jeff hasn't publicised his events on here, and certain Sanctumites aren't invited to them. I met Jeff at Reading a few weeks ago. He seems a decent and likeable person, and of course it's up to him whom he invites to his events, but it still seems rather petty and political to me.

That said, COHUD, which Jeff is involved with, seems to be an exception.
Yeah I'm aware of the historic stuff and I genuinely wasn't intending to re-open that particular subject.

However, James said we might have seen or heard about it and I had neither, so wondered if there might have been somewhere else I could, or should, have seen it.

I don't know whether Jeff is particularly bothered about his attendances but I look at this forum most days, and at Facebook most days, and was totally unaware that this event was taking place yesterday. It's likely the attendance would have been higher if it got a little more publicity somewhere.

It does seem a shame that after the 2010 stuff there does seem to be a sort of random exclusion policy for Jeff's events. I'm not saying that there is, just that it appears so. Indeed, having had no connection whatsoever with the previous fall-out the Facebook friend request I sent to Jeff in mid-late 2010 remains to this date unanswered.

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Re: CoLei5 - Saturday 14 April 2012

Post by James Robinson » Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:27 pm

Here's the photo album for the event: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 163&type=1
WE ARE PREMIER LEAGUE!!!
UP THE MIGHTY TERRIERS!!! ;) :) :D :mrgreen: 8-)

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Re: CoLei5 - Saturday 14 April 2012

Post by Dinos Sfyris » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:42 pm

James Robinson wrote:Here's the photo album for the event: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 163&type=1
<3

Finally! James' co-event photos are the only reason I have any interest in co-events. Or Countdown for that matter.

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Re: CoLei5 - Saturday 14 April 2012

Post by James Robinson » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:45 pm

Dinos Sfyris wrote:
James Robinson wrote:Here's the photo album for the event: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 163&type=1
<3

Finally! James' co-event photos are the only reason I have any interest in co-events. Or Countdown for that matter.
Well, I hope you can still make it to COHUD, then you can be in my next bunch. :D :idea:
WE ARE PREMIER LEAGUE!!!
UP THE MIGHTY TERRIERS!!! ;) :) :D :mrgreen: 8-)

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Re: CoLei5 - Saturday 14 April 2012

Post by Dinos Sfyris » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:47 pm

Just as long as the photos exist I will experience the same enjoyment whether I attend or not :)

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Re: CoLei5 - Saturday 14 April 2012

Post by Mike Brown » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:20 pm

lots of people wrote:stuff about SALINES.
Just for the record, I think SALINES is given in Lexplorer because Susie has allowed it on several occasions, using the argument that you can have various types of saline solution. Personally, I'm more inclined to agree with the COLEI decision; I wonder whether Susie would allow it if it came up today?

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Re: CoLei5 - Saturday 14 April 2012

Post by Clive Brooker » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:22 am

Mike Brown wrote:Just for the record, I think SALINES is given in Lexplorer because Susie has allowed it on several occasions, using the argument that you can have various types of saline solution. Personally, I'm more inclined to agree with the COLEI decision; I wonder whether Susie would allow it if it came up today?
"Interestingly", some of Susie's past adjudications had cast-iron justification (by my reading anyway) because in the COD9 and earlier SALINE was given as an alternative spelling of SALINA - with emphasis on the second syllable perhaps?

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Re: CoLei5 - Saturday 14 April 2012

Post by Mark Deeks » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:08 am

Mike Brown wrote:
lots of people wrote:stuff about SALINES.
Just for the record, I think SALINES is given in Lexplorer because Susie has allowed it on several occasions, using the argument that you can have various types of saline solution. Personally, I'm more inclined to agree with the COLEI decision; I wonder whether Susie would allow it if it came up today?

Just play it safe and go for SILANES.
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