COGST - starting mid-September

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:46 pm

Sorry to announce this the day after COLEI finished but it takes a few weeks to get a list of players signed up, so the sooner I post the message, the sooner people can put their name down. COGST stands for Countdown Online Group Stage Tournament.

I plan to write a full set of rules later but I'm a little busy. The basic principal is to have 24 players in 8 groups of 3, with each player playing the two other players. The group winners (8 people) go in the quarter-finals and the other 16 go into the plate competition. Obviously it's difficult to get 24 people so there'll probably be an adjusted format to deal with it, but there were 22 players in the previous tournament. Anyone at all can play, games takes place on MSN Messenger.

Subscription should be open until about the 10th of September, unless we have 24 players before that. Willing hosts wanted as well

Players:
1. Martin Gardner
2. Charlie Reams
3. Kirk Bevins
4. Jon O'Neill
5. Dino Sfyris
6. Jason Cullen
7. Michael Wallace
8. Julie T.
9. Jerry H.
10. Steven Briers
11. Ben Pugh
12. Debbie F.
13. Matt Coates
14. David O' Donnell
15. Paul Howe
16. Ben Wilson
17. Julian Fell
18. Richard Priest
19. Karen Pearson
20. Howard Somerset[
21. Joseph Bolas/b]

Martin

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:52 pm

Me me me!

Kirk Bevins · Post by **Kirk Bevins** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:56 pm

Charlie Reams wrote:Me me me!

Stick me down as well please.

Jon O'Neill · Post by **Jon O'Neill** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:21 pm

Players:
Martin Gardner
Charlie Reams
Kirk Bevins
Jon O'Neill

Dinos Sfyris · Post by **Dinos Sfyris** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:32 pm

And me

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:22 pm

Although I've forgotten one very important thing - CountGen isn't working for the moment (not for me, anyway) so hopefully there will be a working version by the time we start.

Martin

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:32 pm

Martin Gardner wrote:Although I've forgotten one very important thing - CountGen isn't working for the moment (not for me, anyway) so hopefully there will be a working version by the time we start.

Martin

Things like this are much more likely to get fixed if you tell me about them, you know?

Richard Priest · Post by **Richard Priest** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:44 pm

Would love to enter but I'm away on holiday from 8th to 15th Sept, so if this will make things difficult then leave me out.

JasonCullen · Post by **JasonCullen** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:55 pm

Count me in!!!

Michael Wallace · Post by **Michael Wallace** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:32 pm

Deal.

Karen Pearson · Post by **Karen Pearson** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:51 am

I'll like to play too but I may also be away for some of it. I am away from 4th-13th October. So, if this will mess things up, then feel free to leave me out.

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:44 pm

Karen Pearson wrote:I'll like to play too but I may also be away for some of it. I am away from 4th-13th October. So, if this will mess things up, then feel free to leave me out.

I've put you on the list, that is nearly 2 months after the thing's due to start, anyway. In the next few days I'll send a few emails round to see if people like Chris Wills might be interested.

Martin

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:46 pm

Martin Gardner wrote:I've put you on the list, that is nearly 2 months after the thing's due to start, anyway.

You must be running a little behind schedule then.

Julie T · Post by **Julie T** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:33 pm

Hi, Martin,
I'd love to play in COGST, please!
I'll have to register on MSN messenger first, though.

We were going to go on holiday in September, but cancelled. It was to be with the same company we went with in June, and that holiday was awful.

Julie

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:22 pm

Charlie Reams wrote:
Martin Gardner wrote:I've put you on the list, that is nearly 2 months after the thing's due to start, anyway.
You must be running a little behind schedule then.

October is the 10th month of the year! Well damn it!

Martin

Jerry · Post by **Jerry** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:09 pm

Yes, I'm interested.

Jerry

Steven Briers · Post by **Steven Briers** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:38 pm

I'll have a crack at it.

Ben Pugh · Post by **Ben Pugh** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:31 pm

I'd also like to play.

Debbi Flack · Post by **Debbi Flack** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:05 am

I'll give it a go

David O'Donnell · Post by **David O'Donnell** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:02 pm

I can still play via msn so count me in too.

Paul Howe · Post by **Paul Howe** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:26 pm

I'll have a stab at this, I've got to win one sometime.

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm

We've currently got 17 so 18 would be a nice number for groups of three. I don't mind if people are away for a week so I'll include those two people. I'll leave everything open until the 10th as promised as I'm still waiting for a reply from Tournoff and Wills, we could potentially get to 18. The current plan would be to have 5 groups of 3 and one random "group" of 2. The 2 will play a two-legged match so everybody will get two matches no matter what. The six group winners plus the two best runners-up make the last eight, and everyone else goes into the plate.

Martin

Howard Somerset · Post by **Howard Somerset** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:17 pm

Only just seen this thread, Martin.

I'd like to take part if possible. I'll be away 27 Sep - 4 Oct, and then again 10 - 17 October. If that fits and there are still places, count me in.

Of course, with it starting in mid-September, I'll probably be knocked out long before my first week away.

Ben Wilson · Post by **Ben Wilson** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:33 pm

Hi Martin

Count me in

BJ"procrastination"W

Michael Wallace · Post by **Michael Wallace** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:49 am

Is there going to be any sort of seeding system? Or can we leave it to chance and give us mere mortals a chance of qualifying from the group stages

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:57 am

Michael Wallace wrote:Is there going to be any sort of seeding system? Or can we leave it to chance and give us mere mortals a chance of qualifying from the group stages

Actually I had thought of seeding the thing to make sure there's no big clashes in the first round e.g. Paul Howe versus Jon O'Neill. But I'm open to suggestions as well, do people prefer seedings or random draws?

Martin

Michael Wallace · Post by **Michael Wallace** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:30 pm

Martin Gardner wrote:
Michael Wallace wrote:Is there going to be any sort of seeding system? Or can we leave it to chance and give us mere mortals a chance of qualifying from the group stages
Actually I had thought of seeding the thing to make sure there's no big clashes in the first round e.g. Paul Howe versus Jon O'Neill. But I'm open to suggestions as well, do people prefer seedings or random draws?

Martin

I think seedings are generally 'better' from a purist point of view. It's possibly also a good idea if you're having a knockout tournament for the first round 'losers', since if you've got 3 or 4 big hitters who've been knocked out because of silly first round draws it doesn't give the rest of us much of a chance.

I suppose it depends on what your objectives are - if you want people to have fun then it doesn't really make much difference I don't think, since we all get to have happy competitive(ish) Countdown funtime (tm), but seeding probably makes more sense.

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:06 pm

I'm all in favour of seeding, it takes the shine off the competition when top players get knocked out in the first round.

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:17 pm

Michael Wallace wrote:
Martin Gardner wrote:
Michael Wallace wrote:Is there going to be any sort of seeding system? Or can we leave it to chance and give us mere mortals a chance of qualifying from the group stages
Actually I had thought of seeding the thing to make sure there's no big clashes in the first round e.g. Paul Howe versus Jon O'Neill. But I'm open to suggestions as well, do people prefer seedings or random draws?

Martin
I think seedings are generally 'better' from a purist point of view. It's possibly also a good idea if you're having a knockout tournament for the first round 'losers', since if you've got 3 or 4 big hitters who've been knocked out because of silly first round draws it doesn't give the rest of us much of a chance.

I suppose it depends on what your objectives are - if you want people to have fun then it doesn't really make much difference I don't think, since we all get to have happy competitive(ish) Countdown funtime (tm), but seeding probably makes more sense.

Well nothing's set in stone in Countdown, anyone can win on a good day, it just takes one mistake from your opponent and you can overtake them. So yes, I'll stick to the seedings plan.

Martin

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:31 pm

All this reminds me, do we have the Corral rankings somewhere else (like on Soo's computer) so I can correctly seed the top 6 players.

Martin

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:08 pm

Martin Gardner wrote:All this reminds me, do we have the Corral rankings somewhere else (like on Soo's computer) so I can correctly seed the top 6 players.

http://www.c4countdown.co.uk/ratings

In return, can you quit writing "Martin" at the end of all your posts? Your name is just there on the right should I forget it.

David O'Donnell · Post by **David O'Donnell** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:55 am

Charlie Reams wrote:
Martin Gardner wrote:All this reminds me, do we have the Corral rankings somewhere else (like on Soo's computer) so I can correctly seed the top 6 players.
http://www.c4countdown.co.uk/ratings

In return, can you quit writing "Martin" at the end of all your posts? Your name is just there on the right should I forget it.

In defence of Martin it's probably a habit developed from the mailing system.

David

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:01 pm

David O'Donnell wrote:In defence of Martin it's probably a habit developed from the mailing system.

I wasn't accusing him of anything malicious, I just figured he probably hadn't noticed it's annoying.

Jon O'Neill · Post by **Jon O'Neill** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:23 pm

It's not that annoying.

- Jono.

Ralph Gillions · Post by **Ralph Gillions** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:47 pm

I think it`s friendly.

Ralph

Michael Wallace · Post by **Michael Wallace** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:08 pm

I hadn't really noticed.

Michael

Julian Fell · Post by **Julian Fell** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:54 pm

lol. Anyway I'll have a go Martin (if you're willing to have me in the tournament). Is it going to be 9-round or 15-round games? Also, you said about MSN Messenger and hosts - so are we not using Charlie's apterous site? (haven't had chance to play a game on it yet, so don't really know much about it...)

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:09 pm

It might be ready in time, depending on how this week goes. But I presume that people would at least be allowed to play their games on there if they so desired.

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:12 pm

I'll be publishing the groups tomorrow morning (although I might be working, yes I do have a job) just to let you know there are 20 people including people who are away during that time. I don't really mind that as long as people "catch up" i.e. they might have to play one game on a Monday then again on the Wednesday. 20 people means 6 groups of 3 plus a pair that will play two games - I can't think of another way of doing it. Unless someone joins in the next 24 hours. I've written some rules for the competition which are bordering on the bleeding obvious, but they do for example answer Julian's question (yes it's 15 rounds all the way).

Martin

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:38 pm

Good work, Martin. But I was amused to see you've categorised yourself under "Problems".

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:50 pm

Charlie Reams wrote:Good work, Martin. But I was amused to see you've categorised yourself under "Problems".

LOL actually I just wanted to sign my name at the bottom of the page!!

Julian Fell · Post by **Julian Fell** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:11 pm

Good stuff Martin, that's pretty comprehensive. This probably comes under "the bleeding obvious" as well, but there'll be a lot of games to be played so make sure you keep a fairly tight rein on the scheduling of the tournament won't you - give people deadlines (within reason) and so on, don't let it drift on as some have in the past. Nice one!

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:12 pm

I hope this tournament is as well-documented as the last COOT. I'll be doing my best to recap games as I watch them, but obviously I can't be around for everything.

Howard Somerset · Post by **Howard Somerset** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:25 pm

Well done, Martin. Good set of rules. Good chance of them covering all eventualities. Look forward to it starting.

David O'Donnell · Post by **David O'Donnell** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:31 pm

Julian Fell wrote:lol. Anyway I'll have a go Martin (if you're willing to have me in the tournament). Is it going to be 9-round or 15-round games? Also, you said about MSN Messenger and hosts - so are we not using Charlie's apterous site? (haven't had chance to play a game on it yet, so don't really know much about it...)

It would be far better on apterous, Julian, but unfortunately, due to firewall restrictions, I wouldn't be able to play and I really REALLY wanna having missed the last tourney.

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:56 pm

Julian Fell wrote:lol. Anyway I'll have a go Martin (if you're willing to have me in the tournament). Is it going to be 9-round or 15-round games? Also, you said about MSN Messenger and hosts - so are we not using Charlie's apterous site? (haven't had chance to play a game on it yet, so don't really know much about it...)

Do you mean you can actually "log on" to the site and play directly without MSN Messenger?

Julian Fell · Post by **Julian Fell** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:13 pm

Yeah Martin I think that's the idea, though it doesn't sound like it's completely ready yet. Charlie does the apterous site write automatic game recaps as well? Would be useful...

But yes it'll be good to have David O'D back - missed you in last tournament. Speaking of which: no Corby in this tournament...?

(David'll be happy!)

Somebody said earlier about seedings preventing all the strong players being knocked out early, but it didn't really happen that way in Jono's tournament... though I think that was partly because Charlie's ratings hadn't been updated for a while, so you got e.g. Corby being drawn against Ben Pugh and then Paul Howe in his first two games!

Edit to say - 3 women taking part in a Countdown online competition? Must be a record surely?

Kirk Bevins · Post by **Kirk Bevins** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:07 pm

Julian Fell wrote: Edit to say - 3 women taking part in a Countdown online competition? Must be a record surely?

Word has spread about the growing number of fit young men taking part.

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:32 pm

I've put the games up on the Countdownwiki, here they are. Please use the email address on the MSN addresses thread to get in contact with your opponents, and try and play one game a week, minimum. I'll come back with more information about the quarter-finals when we get closer to them.

Martin

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:33 pm

I thought I should comment on my brilliant chance of winning having drawn the highest ranked player in a best-of-two match.

Martin

Joseph Bolas · Post by **Joseph Bolas** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:38 pm

Martin Gardner wrote:I'll be publishing the groups tomorrow morning (although I might be working, yes I do have a job) just to let you know there are 20 people including people who are away during that time. I don't really mind that as long as people "catch up" i.e. they might have to play one game on a Monday then again on the Wednesday. 20 people means 6 groups of 3 plus a pair that will play two games - I can't think of another way of doing it. Unless someone joins in the next 24 hours. I've written some rules for the competition which are bordering on the bleeding obvious, but they do for example answer Julian's question (yes it's 15 rounds all the way).

Martin

Sorry to be awkward, but are you still looking for a 21st player to even things up for you?

EDIT: If you are, you can put my name down, but I can't host any games as Countgen 2 isn't working for me.

Paul Howe · Post by **Paul Howe** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:18 am

Just to say I'm cool with Joseph being added to our group if you want to Martin. Also let me know when you want to play, Thursday or next Tuesday are probably the best times, but I can probably squeeze it in elsewhere if those don't suit.

Joseph Bolas · Post by **Joseph Bolas** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:33 am

Paul Howe wrote:Just to say I'm cool with Joseph being added to our group if you want to Martin. Also let me know when you want to play, Thursday or next Tuesday are probably the best times, but I can probably squeeze it in elsewhere if those don't suit.

I am free on both Thursday and next Tuesday, if Martin does add me to your group.

Starting the 15th September, the only times I would be unavailable to play (for now) are Monday's & Wednesday's 17:30 - 21:30.

Julian Fell · Post by **Julian Fell** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:42 am

Seems fair enough to add Joseph since you did say Martin that you'd leave it open for people to join till the 10th...

Also, might be a good idea to give people at least a rough deadline for when the group games have to be played by - JUST AN IDEA, don't jump down my throat.

I've drawn two numbers specialists

Howard Somerset · Post by **Howard Somerset** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:05 am

Julian Fell wrote:I've drawn two numbers specialists

I'm sure they're both equally elated, Julian.

I've got Jono and Debbi, who's on our screens at the moment. Two easy games ... for them, I mean.

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:19 am

Yes it's VERY convient to me to just add Joseph to the final group as that makes 21 (7 * 3), especially since nobody's objected. I'll add this to the Countdown Wiki right now.

Martin

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:22 am

Julian Fell wrote:Seems fair enough to add Joseph since you did say Martin that you'd leave it open for people to join till the 10th...
Also, might be a good idea to give people at least a rough deadline for when the group games have to be played by - JUST AN IDEA, don't jump down my throat.

Yes I agree, well I think two weeks for all the game would be fair, with reasonable extensions, not unreasonable ones! So that would be the 24/09.

Martin

Dinos Sfyris · Post by **Dinos Sfyris** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:42 pm

Me n David are hoping to get our game under way on msn as soon as he gets online (half hr or so). Any offers to host would be greatly appreciated

Cheers

David O'Donnell · Post by **David O'Donnell** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:02 pm

Cannot seem to get on msn now; the Countdown gods are conspiring against me. Though judging by your form today, Dinos, you probably would have thrashed me!

David O'Donnell · Post by **David O'Donnell** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:05 pm

Actually, just had a thought - maybe we can use another chat facility? Would a host be willing to drag his/her carcass over to another chat room?