COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Discussion and announcements relating to unofficial Countdown competitions, held online or in real life. Observation, discussion, reflection, and other stuff ending in -ion.
User avatar
Ben Wilson
Legend
Posts: 3671
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:05 pm
Location: North Hykeham

COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Ben Wilson » Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:37 pm

Thirteen? Unlucky for some... But not for fans of the oldest co-event on the FOCAL calendar!

Once again, Counting down will be taking place in Lincoln on the last weekend in January (my plans to have it on the second weekend and do a 'COLIN the 13th' style thing were kind of a non starter), and all are invited!

If you've never attended COLIN- or any other co-event- before, the format is quite simple. All the players are divided into groups of 3 where one player acts as 'host' whilst the other two play an old-fashioned 9 round game of Countdown. Everyone has a turn hosting (enabling everyone on the table to play the other two players once each), and after 3 of these rounds, when everyone has played 6 games and hosted 3, the top two players (sorted by number of wins, then by number of points scored) play in the grand final to determine the overall winner, and who gets to take home the COLIN perpetual trophy for the next year.

...That's the Saturday main event, anyway. For the fourth year in a row, the day after 'COLIN proper' there will be a 'hangover' event of just two rounds (everyone plays 4 and hosts 2) followed by a final.

As with 2016 (this year? Last year?), Saturday's main event will take place at the Ark on Moor Lane in North Hykeham. Here are directions from Hykeham Rail Station. Doors open at 10am, the draw for the first round of the main event takes place at 11:30 and games should get underway by 11:50.

The hangover this year is taking place at a new venue- or rather, an old venue, which is technically a new venue. The Memorial Hall on Newark Road (directions from the Thorpe on the Hill Travelodge here) will see Countdowning action for the first time in two years when the Hangover takes place there, starting at 11am (unless you're Jen Steadman) and ending a little bit after 2:30pm.

Plenty of prizes will be on offer this (next?) year. In 2016 we had mugs- in 2017, we'll also have mugs (albeit not as many). At CoNot V, we had handmade trophies, at COLIN XIII we'll have handmade trophies (albeit very different to wooden cubes). Everyone will get a puzzle magazine (reminds me- must email Lee Fisher for a crossword), a pen, a notepad and another freebie that I've commissioned that should hopefully combine the feel of 2015's sticker album with the fun of absolute mayhem. :) There will also be plenty of spot prizes available on the day, including our usual array of badges and maybe even a badger (Milton Keynes has moles, I apparently now have badgers).

Entry fees have, sadly, had to rise again, but they will remain at this price for this COLIN and COLIN XIV guaranteed. Entry into the main event will set you back £14, the hangover will cost £9, or you can enter both events for £20. I accept Paypal payments to hulla.mahulla@btopenworld.com........................................... or by cheque to my home address (available upon request).

If I've forgotten anything, I'll just post it below.

See you all in January!

Entrants so far (23/1/17)

COLIN XIII (51)-

Zarte Siempre
Jen Steadman
Thomas Cappleman
Graeme Cole
Jack Worsley
Gevin Chapwell
Callum Todd
Alan Young
Lee Fisher
Jon O'Neill
Gerry Tynan
Simpatico Jones
Thomas Carey
Rose Boyle
Paul Worsley
May Battlefield
Lauren Hamer
Matty Artell
Aidan Linge
Conor Travers
Eddy Byrne
Dylan Taylor
Jim Bentley
Tim Down
Matt Morrison
Heather Badcock
Stewart Gordon
Mark Davies
Stephen Read
Adam Dexter
Lucy Westwood
Tom Chafer-Cook
Chris Marshall
Mark Hartnett
Mike Springett
Tracey Mills
Mark Mills
Mike Brown
Ryan Taylor
Michelle Nevitt
James Robinson
James Laverty
Amie Bateen
Jonathan Wynn
Zubair Patel
Dan McColm
Tom Rowell
Rob Foster
Dinos Sfyris
Andy Platt
Dave Benson

The Hangover (37)-

Zarte Siempre
Jen Steadman
Adam Gillard
Thomas Cappleman
Graeme Cole
Jack Worsley
Gevin Chapwell
Callum Todd
Alan Young
Lee Fisher
Jon O'Neill
Gerry Tynan
Simpatico Jones
Thomas Carey
Rose Boyle
Paul Worsley
May Battlefield
Lauren Hamer
Eddy Byrne
Stewart Gordon
Mark Davies
Stephen Read
Adam Dexter
Lucy Westwood
Chris Marshall
Mark Hartnett
Mike Springett
Matty Artell
Tracey Mills
Mark Mills
Ryan Taylor
Michelle Nevitt
James Robinson
James Laverty
Zubair Patel
Dan McColm
Tom Rowell

Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7672
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Gavin Chipper » Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:42 pm

Paid. Got £66 for the Travelodge (£26 for the Friday, £40 for the Saturday).

Zarte Siempre
Devotee
Posts: 973
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:56 pm
Location: Dadford, Buckinghamshire

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Zarte Siempre » Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:12 pm

Did you remember to take your 13p off?
Possibly the first contestant to accelerate with a mic clipped...

Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7672
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Gavin Chipper » Sat Sep 17, 2016 12:16 pm

Zarte Siempre wrote:Did you remember to take your 13p off?
I've completely forgotten what that is - if I ever knew. Is that a thing?

Zarte Siempre
Devotee
Posts: 973
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:56 pm
Location: Dadford, Buckinghamshire

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Zarte Siempre » Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:10 am

You were the 13th Nottingham entry, so Ben gave you 13p off your Lincoln entry fee.
Possibly the first contestant to accelerate with a mic clipped...

User avatar
Jon Corby
Moral Hero
Posts: 7905
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:36 am

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Jon Corby » Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:04 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:Paid. Got £66 for the Travelodge (£26 for the Friday, £40 for the Saturday).
Lodge is in to £64 now (£26 + £38)

Fucking loser Gev.

Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7672
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Gavin Chipper » Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:16 pm

Jon Corby wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote:Paid. Got £66 for the Travelodge (£26 for the Friday, £40 for the Saturday).
Lodge is in to £64 now (£26 + £38)

Fucking loser Gev.
Yeah, but you're not getting that price because you've chosen that exact day to strip your wallpaper.

User avatar
Ben Wilson
Legend
Posts: 3671
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:05 pm
Location: North Hykeham

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Ben Wilson » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:53 pm

100 days to go!

And we're up to the princely total of seven entries for the main event and eight for the hangover. Time for me to get something a bit substantial to announce to get those numbers up a bit... I could start by builfing the trophies, for starters! :)

See you all in January.

User avatar
Ben Wilson
Legend
Posts: 3671
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:05 pm
Location: North Hykeham

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Ben Wilson » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:00 pm

9 signed up for the main event and 10 for the Hangover, and the most significant part of pre-COLIN preparation has just happened- I've received Lee's puzzle for inclusion in the puzzle magazine. :)

Ryan Taylor
Postmaster General
Posts: 3661
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:18 pm

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Ryan Taylor » Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:33 pm

https://www.myvouchercodes.co.uk/travelodge

Travelodge for £49.50 (£16.50 discount) with the above promotion.

User avatar
Matt Morrison
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7167
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:27 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Matt Morrison » Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:57 pm

Thanks Ryan! £49.50 - 2.02% via Topcashback for £48.50 overall. Not unbeatable but pleasing.

User avatar
Ben Wilson
Legend
Posts: 3671
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:05 pm
Location: North Hykeham

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Ben Wilson » Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:53 pm

We've had queries about the timings for the days, so here they are- same as the last two years. :)

COLIN Main event-

10:00- doors open
11:40- draw for round 1
11:50- round 1 begins
13:10- lunch
14:00- round 2
15:35- round 3
17:00- grand final
17:30- prizegiving

COLIN hangover-

10:00 doors open
10:50- draw for round 1
11:00- round 1
12:40- round 2
14:00- grand final
14:30- prizegiving

Numbers are up to 9 for the main event and 10 for the hangover. Not to sound too negative, but we were at sixteen for both at this time last year...

Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7672
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Gavin Chipper » Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:52 pm

Ben Wilson wrote:Numbers are up to 9 for the main event and 10 for the hangover. Not to sound too negative, but we were at sixteen for both at this time last year...
Are you saying you'd rather Adam Gillard didn't come?

User avatar
Ben Wilson
Legend
Posts: 3671
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:05 pm
Location: North Hykeham

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Ben Wilson » Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:44 pm

Up to 20 now for the Saturday and 18 for the Sunday! :-) Which means that there's plenty of space in BOTH events Gevin but not much time to get those entries in... And I have some pretty exciting news arriving (literally!) soon. :)

User avatar
Ben Wilson
Legend
Posts: 3671
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:05 pm
Location: North Hykeham

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Ben Wilson » Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:47 pm

Numbers are steadily increasing, and one of those who'll be there on the Saturday and Sunday is COLIN stalwart Lee Fisher, who has once again provided a puzzle for the COLIN puzzle magazine- and here are your instructions.

Butties? (by Elfeshire)

Solvers must complete the grid on the left by treating it as a regular carte-blanche crossword. Clues are standard cryptic, and are given in the regular order. The completed crossword is not symmetrical. When completed, solvers should pay attention to its unchecked letters (ones which are not used in both an across and a down clue) in order to fill in the grid on the right. Since I still haven't been bothered to get a new dictionary yet, Chambers 12th edition (without a back cover, in my case) is the main point of reference.

User avatar
Kirk Bevins
God
Posts: 4923
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:18 pm
Location: York, UK

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Kirk Bevins » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:29 am

I can't make it again this year sadly due to work. Hope you all have fun!

User avatar
Ben Wilson
Legend
Posts: 3671
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:05 pm
Location: North Hykeham

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Ben Wilson » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:32 pm

Kirk Bevins wrote:I can't make it again this year sadly due to work. Hope you all have fun!
:cry:

User avatar
Ben Wilson
Legend
Posts: 3671
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:05 pm
Location: North Hykeham

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Ben Wilson » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:55 pm

Up to 24 now with the addition of Jim Bentley! :D Just over a month (and a couple of obscure bank holidays) to go!

User avatar
Matt Morrison
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7167
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:27 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Matt Morrison » Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:09 pm

Corby doesn't even understand how big a mistake he is making.

User avatar
Ben Wilson
Legend
Posts: 3671
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:05 pm
Location: North Hykeham

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Ben Wilson » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:12 pm

Co:Birmingham open division winner Stephen Read brings us to 30 for the main event and 24 for the hangover! :D There's just 26 days to go, and still plenty of work for me to do to (hopefully) make this the best COLIN ever- but for it to be the biggest and best, well, that first part is all up to you guys. :) So get your payments to me, and hopefully I'll be seeing you all at the end of the month! :D

User avatar
Matt Morrison
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7167
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:27 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Matt Morrison » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:04 pm

Imagine if it was the biggest and best without Corby.

User avatar
Ben Wilson
Legend
Posts: 3671
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:05 pm
Location: North Hykeham

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Ben Wilson » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:15 pm

Matt Morrison wrote:Imagine if it was the biggest and best without Corby.
He'll only have himself to blame.

User avatar
Ben Wilson
Legend
Posts: 3671
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:05 pm
Location: North Hykeham

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Ben Wilson » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:28 pm

24 days to go, 33 signed up for the main event and 26 for the hangover. As I was reminded a couple of days ago, if I hit 30 entries for the hangover by January 9th, I'll splash out on a few extra freebies for the Sunday event. 5 days and 4 entries to go...

User avatar
JimBentley
Legend
Posts: 2598
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:39 pm
Location: Redcar, UK
Contact:

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by JimBentley » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:29 pm

Ben Wilson wrote:
Matt Morrison wrote:Imagine if it was the biggest and best without Corby.
He'll only have himself to blame.
It's odd that - having already posted in this thread - he obviously knows that it's going on, but hasn't entered (or said why he's not coming). Hope he's OK. I might have to email him.

User avatar
Ben Wilson
Legend
Posts: 3671
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:05 pm
Location: North Hykeham

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Ben Wilson » Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:03 pm

39 now signed up for the main event and 32 for the hangover... The all-time COLIN attendance record was 47 in 2014 and the all-time co-event attendance record was 50 at Milton Keynes in 2015... Just saying... ;-)

What this does mean, though, is that I'm going to need to make my usual annual appeal for people to bring along copies of the board game if they can. Fortunately, dictionaries won't be needed as ODO/Apterous will be used as the word authority during the weekend.

Oh, and if you haven't seen them yet on Facebook, here are the trophies you'll be playing for. The hangover will have similar trophies, but with a slight twist to them.

User avatar
Jon O'Neill
Ginger Ninja
Posts: 4126
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:45 am
Location: London, UK

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Jon O'Neill » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:43 pm

Ben Wilson wrote:ODO/Apterous
... which?

User avatar
James Robinson
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 9015
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:38 pm
Location: Mirfield, West Yorkshire

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by James Robinson » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:29 pm

FA Cup 4th Round Draw:

Rochdale v Huddersfield Town

LINCOLN, HERE I COME!!! ;) :) :D 8-)
WE ARE PREMIER LEAGUE!!!
UP THE MIGHTY TERRIERS!!! ;) :) :D :mrgreen: 8-)

User avatar
Ben Wilson
Legend
Posts: 3671
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:05 pm
Location: North Hykeham

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Ben Wilson » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:29 pm

45 now signed up for the main event and 35 for the hangover! :D This is gonna be a busy weekend, so I'll repeat my earlier appeal: if you can bring along copies of the board game to use on the day, please, please do so! Otherwise I may have to improvise, which no one ever wants.

Speaking of improvising, the seeds for the day will be up on Saturday. :)

User avatar
Ben Wilson
Legend
Posts: 3671
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:05 pm
Location: North Hykeham

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Ben Wilson » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:57 pm

Saturday? Sunday even. It's still the weekend. It counts. The seeds are, as ever, based on finishing positions at previous COLINs, on-screen performances, apterous pro ranks, finished at other co-events and FOCAL final standings in that (descending) order and are subject to change.

1 Jack Worsley
2 Dylan Taylor
3 Jen Steadman
4 Conor Travers
5 Simpatico Jones
6 Zarte Siempre
7 James Robinson
8 Dan McColm
9 Thomas Cappleman
10 Thomas Carey
11 Callum Todd
12 Rob Foster
13 Stephen Read
14 May Battlefield
15 Graeme Cole
16 Jon O'Neill
17 Eddy Byrne
18 Andy Platt
19 Tracey Mills
20 Jonathan Wynn
21 Gerry Tynan
22 Ryan Taylor
23 Mark Davies
24 Amie Bateen
25 Dinos Sfyris
26 Paul Worsley
27 Tom Chafer-Cook
28 Tim Down
29 Matty Artell
30 Tom Rowell
31 Mark Hartnett
32 Michelle Nevitt
33 Rose Boyle
34 Zubair Patel
35 Aidan Linge
36 Jim Bentley
37 Dave Benson
38 Lauren Hamer
39 James Laverty
40 Mike Springett
41 Lucy Westwood
42 Adam Dexter
43 Mike Brown
44 Chris Marshall
45 Alan Young
46 Stewart Gordon
47 Heather Badcock
48 Gevin Chapwell
49 Matt Morrison
50 Lee Fisher
51 Mark Mills

User avatar
Ben Wilson
Legend
Posts: 3671
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:05 pm
Location: North Hykeham

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Ben Wilson » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:25 pm

Tom Rowell (#48) and Rob Foster (#49)'s entries have officially made COLIN XIII the biggest yet- but there's still plenty of time to go to get your entry in- the all-time co-event record attendance is 50, after all... :)

Also, if you're travelling up from the south in the day, be aware of extra traffic ahead of Lincoln City's 4th round FA Cup match against Brighton. :D

User avatar
Jon O'Neill
Ginger Ninja
Posts: 4126
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:45 am
Location: London, UK

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Jon O'Neill » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:16 am

Can I ask a question about pre-game letters-pack sorting? I've seen it don on tables/done it myself and it makes the game more fun when you know 6 I's are not going to come out consecutively. Nobody on the table gets a competitive edge but if there are tables not sorting then they miss out on potentially higher scores and thus leaderboard positions.

Either way I think it should be spelt out as to whether it's legal or not, and the easiest way to be consistent is to just ban it, or to have a rule that you can filter out 4 consecutive instances of a letter but no more touching than that.

Heather Styles
Rookie
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:29 pm

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Heather Styles » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:30 am

What do you mean, "if there are tables not sorting"? Sorting is blatantly cheating. Well done for owning up and calling for a ban, Jono.

Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7672
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Gavin Chipper » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:07 am

It certainly sounds a bit cheaty as it's obvious most tables won't be doing it and there's not going to be a standard method to doing it unless it's all out in the open, so even among people doing it, some will get more of an advantage.

How have you been sorting them?

User avatar
Matt Morrison
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7167
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:27 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Matt Morrison » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:51 am

Had no idea some cunts were doing this consistently. Pretty typical of Jono to be honest.

In all seriousness, surely this is just inflating the scores of games that it happens in. I don't care about this aspect obviously.

But part of the fun of these stupid events playing with stupid letters is that you get rounds with 4 of the same vowel and 4 of the same consonant and an X. Why you would ever want to stop this happening is beyond me. Fuck off and play on apterous instead.

Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7672
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Gavin Chipper » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:05 am

Matt Morrison wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:51 am
Had no idea some cunts were doing this consistently. Pretty typical of Jono to be honest.

In all seriousness, surely this is just inflating the scores of games that it happens in. I don't care about this aspect obviously.

But part of the fun of these stupid events playing with stupid letters is that you get rounds with 4 of the same vowel and 4 of the same consonant and an X. Why you would ever want to stop this happening is beyond me. Fuck off and play on apterous instead.
Some people (mainly Jono actually) see themselves as above playing "for fun" and see themselves as serious professionals. Bit sad really.

Heather Styles
Rookie
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:29 pm

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Heather Styles » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:12 am

I play for fun, but I play for fairness, too. The reason sorting is not okay ]is that it distorts the scores and affects finishing positions.

Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7672
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Gavin Chipper » Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:05 am

Heather Styles wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:12 am
I play for fun, but I play for fairness, too. The reason sorting is not okay ]is that it distorts the scores and affects finishing positions.
And it's not a level playing field if some groups of people take it upon themselves to do this effectively in secret without any general consensus that this is allowed or knowledge that it's going on.

User avatar
Ben Wilson
Legend
Posts: 3671
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:05 pm
Location: North Hykeham

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Ben Wilson » Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:21 pm

Tricky one this. Obviously this sort of thing is hard to enforce but I'm pretty sure in the past at other events I've discarded a fourth consecutive I and given a different letter if it's come out of the vowel pile so I've no real problem with people doing this, but rigging piles before the game starts would be a no-no in my eyes.

User avatar
Jon O'Neill
Ginger Ninja
Posts: 4126
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:45 am
Location: London, UK

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Jon O'Neill » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:18 pm

I think that should be announced at the event then.

Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7672
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Gavin Chipper » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:22 pm

Jon O'Neill wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:18 pm
I think that should be announced at the event then.
You'd also need to tell people not to defecate on the desks then. I'd say it's pretty obviously underhand if not out-and-out cheating.

User avatar
Matt Morrison
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7167
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:27 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Matt Morrison » Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:29 pm

Gevin has absolutely destroyed you here to be fair Jono.

User avatar
Jon O'Neill
Ginger Ninja
Posts: 4126
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:45 am
Location: London, UK

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Jon O'Neill » Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:42 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:22 pm
Jon O'Neill wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:18 pm
I think that should be announced at the event then.
You'd also need to tell people not to defecate on the desks then. I'd say it's pretty obviously underhand if not out-and-out cheating.
I don't think so at all. It's always been an enjoyment thing.. some people enjoy getting 7s instead of 5s. It's the same for both players in the game so no benefit there. I reckon the majority of people who do it don't even realise that they're getting an advantage in the standings.

Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7672
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Gavin Chipper » Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:49 pm

But how far would someone conceivably go when it comes to sorting the deck?

User avatar
Graeme Cole
Series 65 Champion
Posts: 1460
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:59 pm

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Graeme Cole » Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:56 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:49 pm
But how far would someone conceivably go when it comes to sorting the deck?
I remember being in a game years ago (COLIN? Cobliv?) where we removed all but one of the many Qs from the deck, which seemed reasonable. Ideally we'd have the thing people have suggested before, where we decide on a standard distribution of letters and use that. However, that's not really practical unless the organiser prints off 17 sets of cards themselves, and it's even more impractical when the letter cards come from board games people have brought along. Also it wouldn't do anything to stop the occasional streak of five Os.

User avatar
Matt Morrison
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7167
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:27 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Matt Morrison » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:09 pm

Jon O'Neill wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:42 pm
Gavin Chipper wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:22 pm
Jon O'Neill wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:18 pm
I think that should be announced at the event then.
You'd also need to tell people not to defecate on the desks then. I'd say it's pretty obviously underhand if not out-and-out cheating.
I don't think so at all. It's always been an enjoyment thing.. some people enjoy getting 7s instead of 5s. It's the same for both players in the game so no benefit there. I reckon the majority of people who do it don't even realise that they're getting an advantage in the standings.
If it was true that the percentage of flat rounds and the percentage of freak darrens was about the same in max-5 rounds and max-7 rounds, then that would be fine. This actually might be true, I have no idea.

User avatar
Jon O'Neill
Ginger Ninja
Posts: 4126
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:45 am
Location: London, UK

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Jon O'Neill » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:38 pm

Matt Morrison wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:09 pm
Jon O'Neill wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:42 pm
Gavin Chipper wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:22 pm


You'd also need to tell people not to defecate on the desks then. I'd say it's pretty obviously underhand if not out-and-out cheating.
I don't think so at all. It's always been an enjoyment thing.. some people enjoy getting 7s instead of 5s. It's the same for both players in the game so no benefit there. I reckon the majority of people who do it don't even realise that they're getting an advantage in the standings.
If it was true that the percentage of flat rounds and the percentage of freak darrens was about the same in max-5 rounds and max-7 rounds, then that would be fine. This actually might be true, I have no idea.
That's a good, constructive, and therefore highly unexpected point. Well done. But I think any advantage gained by either player would be absolutely minute.

Also I'm glad that my practising words with I as the only vowel will pay off... insipid critics insisting on instilling rigid civility can be dispiriting. But not in this case.

Zarte Siempre
Devotee
Posts: 973
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:56 pm
Location: Dadford, Buckinghamshire

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Zarte Siempre » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:38 pm

Jon O'Neill wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:38 pm
Also I'm glad that my practising words with I as the only vowel will pay off... insipid critics insisting on instilling rigid civility can be dispiriting. But not in this case.
on, can and be all have other vowels in them you idiot. Fuck sake.
Possibly the first contestant to accelerate with a mic clipped...

User avatar
Jon O'Neill
Ginger Ninja
Posts: 4126
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:45 am
Location: London, UK

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Jon O'Neill » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:12 pm

Zarte Siempre wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:38 pm
Jon O'Neill wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:38 pm
Also I'm glad that my practising words with I as the only vowel will pay off... insipid critics insisting on instilling rigid civility can be dispiriting. But not in this case.
on, can and be all have other vowels in them you idiot. Fuck sake.
Shit. Prick. Dick. Minidisc.

Heather Styles
Rookie
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:29 pm

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Heather Styles » Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:01 pm

I'm disappointed at your lack of backbone on this, Ben. It makes me feel like a mug that I've played by what are self-evidently the rules at previous events.

User avatar
Ben Wilson
Legend
Posts: 3671
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:05 pm
Location: North Hykeham

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Ben Wilson » Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:10 pm

Heather Styles wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:01 pm
I'm disappointed at your lack of backbone on this, Ben. It makes me feel like a mug that I've played by what are self-evidently the rules at previous events.
What 'lack of backbone'? This is the first I've ever heard of something like this happening at an event- it's not like I can police sixteen simultaneous games of Countdown, after all. I've said firmly 'no p-regame sorting', which is what Jono asked about, but generally people would prefer not to play rounds like 'HMNDIIIII'. Preventing four consecutive identical vowels is the sole concession I've made because I've done that before at Edinburgh-style events, turned over three 'I's, saw that a fourth was about to come out, gone 'screw that' and picked the first non-I vowel instead. It makes the game more fun, and that's why people come to these events- to have fun. Decision stands.

Zarte Siempre
Devotee
Posts: 973
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:56 pm
Location: Dadford, Buckinghamshire

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Zarte Siempre » Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:40 pm

I I I I I I like you verrrrrrrrry much.
Possibly the first contestant to accelerate with a mic clipped...

Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7672
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:00 am

Jon O'Neill wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:12 pm
Zarte Siempre wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:38 pm
Jon O'Neill wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:38 pm
Also I'm glad that my practising words with I as the only vowel will pay off... insipid critics insisting on instilling rigid civility can be dispiriting. But not in this case.
on, can and be all have other vowels in them you idiot. Fuck sake.
Shit. Prick. Dick. Minidisc.
If that was a genuine effort and you missed those words by accident, then it's really poor.

User avatar
Matt Morrison
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7167
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:27 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Matt Morrison » Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:34 am

I would like to see Ben make a stand and force Jono to do a full-audience apology at the start of the day. If he refuses, banned.

Heather Styles
Rookie
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:29 pm

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Heather Styles » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:01 am

Ben Wilson wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:10 pm
Heather Styles wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:01 pm
I'm disappointed at your lack of backbone on this, Ben. It makes me feel like a mug that I've played by what are self-evidently the rules at previous events.
What 'lack of backbone'? This is the first I've ever heard of something like this happening at an event- it's not like I can police sixteen simultaneous games of Countdown, after all. I've said firmly 'no p-regame sorting', which is what Jono asked about, but generally people would prefer not to play rounds like 'HMNDIIIII'. Preventing four consecutive identical vowels is the sole concession I've made because I've done that before at Edinburgh-style events, turned over three 'I's, saw that a fourth was about to come out, gone 'screw that' and picked the first non-I vowel instead. It makes the game more fun, and that's why people come to these events- to have fun. Decision stands.
Lack of backbone at not being prepared to call being deliberately selective with letters cheating. Also at making exception for a particular type of cheating just because you have done it.

Heather Styles
Rookie
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:29 pm

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Heather Styles » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:03 am

:geek:
Matt Morrison wrote:
Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:34 am
I would like to see Ben make a stand and force Jono to do a full-audience apology at the start of the day. If he refuses, banned.
I wouldn't want anyone banned over a single admission of cheating. I just want people to see this for what it is.

Zarte Siempre
Devotee
Posts: 973
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:56 pm
Location: Dadford, Buckinghamshire

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Zarte Siempre » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:05 am

Genuine question - does cheating not have to benefit you?

For instance, Ben saying he's not given players a 4th consecutive vowel...

That implies he's hosting... which means it gives him no benefit. And there's no implication he then received the same treatment back...

So whilst possibly unfair on other players, to refer to it as *cheating* when you're receiving no advantage at all from it doesn't feel accurate.
Possibly the first contestant to accelerate with a mic clipped...

Heather Styles
Rookie
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:29 pm

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Heather Styles » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:52 am

No, I don't think cheating does have to benefit the person doing the cheating. I refer my right honourable friend to Oxford Online Dictionary definition 1.1 of cheat (verb): "Gain an advantage over or deprive of something by using unfair or deceitful methods." Selecting out 4th consecutive vowels is depriving points to players on other tables who are not doing that. Not a lot of points, and people may not care that this has happened, granted, but let's not be afraid to recognise what is going here.

I think the solution to this and other instances of cheating (or anomalies, or whatever you prefer to call them) would be to have identical letter sets at each table. I appreciate that this is a lot of work.

User avatar
Matt Morrison
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7167
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:27 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Matt Morrison » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:42 pm

I agree with Zarte that "cheating" is a bit strong. But then, as ever, I really don't care about the Countdown as much as nearly everybody else does, so my opinion is invalid.

It's more just "messing" - it may benefit, it might not, it may be well-intentioned, it might not. Just makes it so much easier if there's a rule, and a "nobody does it" rule is much easier to enforce than any "you can do it, but in this way, and only in these cirucmstances" rule.

I would be one of the few (?) people to absolutely love it if it turned out that someone had got a max game by messing with the cards like this. Love a bit of controversy!

Overall ruling should be based on the total sum of enjoyment of an event lost by having some bad selections versus total sum of enjoyment lost by people messing with the selections to their own rules. I register fairly close to a zero on both.

But seriously, let's get Jono to go down on his knees in front of Gevin and seek his forgiveness.

Zarte Siempre
Devotee
Posts: 973
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:56 pm
Location: Dadford, Buckinghamshire

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Zarte Siempre » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:48 pm

Matt Morrison wrote:
Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:42 pm
But seriously, let's get Jono to go down on his knees in front of Gevin and seek his forgiveness.
I always knew those two were a "thing"
Possibly the first contestant to accelerate with a mic clipped...

User avatar
Mark Deeks
Kiloposter
Posts: 1625
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:15 am

Re: COLIN XIII- Countdown in Lincoln, 28-29 January 2017

Post by Mark Deeks » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:11 pm

I don't know if evening up vowel distribution really gives an advantage so much as it makes it more fun. Which of course is a matter of opinion. I realise this is basically what Matt Morrison has said, which probably means he is right.

It could go one of two ways. I love a good messy selection, which is partly why I pick three vowels so often. I prefer them to stuff that "looks niney". At the same time, if you have two letters rounds with a combined max of 9 in a 9 round game, suddenly the conundrum is unfairly important.
Eoin Monaghan wrote:
He may not be liked on here, but you have to give some credit to Mark

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest