Search found 8285 matches

by Gavin Chipper
Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:54 pm
Forum: Countdown - Events
Topic: FOCAL scoring system
Replies: 7
Views: 298

Re: FOCAL scoring system

Personally I believe as well that organisers where possible should be incentivised to work harder to promote their event, knowing that some people will base their decisions on where they can take points from. Additionally, I believe that larger events tend to (although there are some exceptions) ha...
by Gavin Chipper
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:31 am
Forum: Countdown - Events
Topic: FOCAL scoring system
Replies: 7
Views: 298

Re: FOCAL scoring system

Reading with interest to see how this develops.
by Gavin Chipper
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:17 pm
Forum: Countdown - Events
Topic: CO:parkrun Recaps
Replies: 319
Views: 45476

Re: CO:parkrun Recaps

Before .co.mk I did the Linford Wood parkrun (it was just me this time), which is the other Milton Keynes parkrun, since I've already done the actual Milton Keynes parkrun twice. And I finished first, which is the first time I've done that as a tourist! The results out of 219 runners: 1. Gevin Chapw...
by Gavin Chipper
Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:25 pm
Forum: Countdown - Spoilers
Topic: Spoilers for Wednesday 8 August 2018 (Series 79, Prelim 31)
Replies: 23
Views: 779

Re: Spoilers for Wednesday 8 August 2018 (Series 79, Prelim 31)

How many syllables in BANNED? Or BAND? (Actually a special Countdown rule that words like PAINED are considered to have two syllables is not a bad idea.) I don't think you can define the number of syllables in a word based on whether you want it to have a comparative and superlative form! Something...
by Gavin Chipper
Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:06 pm
Forum: Countdown - Spoilers
Topic: Spoilers for Friday 3rd August 2018 (Series 79, Prelim 28)
Replies: 14
Views: 1072

Re: Spoilers for Friday 3rd August 2018 (Series 79, Prelim 28)

Seriously? I always thought "standard method" was just a little joke. And this method works in 60% of cases, so 40% of the time it leaves you at least 25 away from the target? It started as Tony's 3-large thing, but it became generally used as a joke. But I think "working" means getting it spot on,...
by Gavin Chipper
Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:56 pm
Forum: Countdown - Spoilers
Topic: Spoilers for Friday 10th August 2018 (Series 79, Prelim 33)
Replies: 5
Views: 415

Re: Spoilers for Friday 10th August 2018 (Series 79, Prelim 33)

(100+8)*6+75/25 for the actually quite easy way to get that last numbers.
by Gavin Chipper
Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:37 pm
Forum: Countdown - Spoilers
Topic: Spoilers for 9th August 2018
Replies: 7
Views: 446

Re: Spoilers for 9th August 2018G

Tom S wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:30 pm
Can I edit the title? Was a little inconsiderate in checking. TOADIED as a R4 beater.
Edit the title in your opening post. Should work.
by Gavin Chipper
Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:31 pm
Forum: Countdown - Spoilers
Topic: Spoilers for 9th August 2018
Replies: 7
Views: 446

Re: Spoilers for 9th August 2018G

Tom S wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:21 pm
Good luck to Steve today- a good player and hope he can go on to win a few.
You mentioned him the other day. Where do you know him from? Is he on Apterous?
by Gavin Chipper
Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:04 am
Forum: Countdown - Spoilers
Topic: Spoilers for Wednesday 8 August 2018 (Series 79, Prelim 31)
Replies: 23
Views: 779

Re: Spoilers for Wednesday 8 August 2018 (Series 79, Prelim 31)

So if it doesn't make sense, does that mean that -er and -est is decided on a whim by Susie? It seems so. It's also invalid on Apterous, which surprises me, since you'd expect Apterous to more rigidly follow the rules. Well, it's Sam who spotted it, I can't take credit for that. This is an amazing ...
by Gavin Chipper
Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:09 am
Forum: Countdown - Spoilers
Topic: Spoilers for 6th August 2018
Replies: 22
Views: 735

Re: Spoilers for 6th August 2018

On the other hand, IMO Matthew's win on Friday can be attributed to just pure luck with his risky words since he genuinely did not know whether it was in or not...but seriously, someone please end the Octochamp drought, we should have had two by now and we have none! :( I don't think so at all. He ...
by Gavin Chipper
Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:15 pm
Forum: Off-topic
Topic: Why don't you like basketball?
Replies: 66
Views: 1170

Re: Why don't you like basketball?

I would like to know the percentage of 6 foot 7 plus people living in the UK. I suspect that answer will explain the lack of participation. But never give up as it has taken decades for America to accept soccer as a viable sport and I suspect come 2026 they may come close to winning the darn thing....
by Gavin Chipper
Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:12 pm
Forum: Countdown - Spoilers
Topic: Spoilers for 6th August 2018
Replies: 22
Views: 735

Re: Spoilers for 6th August 2018

Another player that looks good briefly and then falls away. I wonder what today's winner will go on to achieve.
by Gavin Chipper
Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:11 pm
Forum: Off-topic
Topic: Why don't you like basketball?
Replies: 66
Views: 1170

Re: Why don't you like basketball?

Something else that I think might put people off. My perception (and presumably some other people's) is that professional basketball isn't just people playing basketball better than random people playing basketball - it's effectively a completely different game. The point is that in football (or wha...
by Gavin Chipper
Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:07 pm
Forum: Off-topic
Topic: Why don't you like basketball?
Replies: 66
Views: 1170

Re: Why don't you like basketball?

Also how easy is it to get what's going on if you have no prior knowledge of the sport? Football is really easy.
by Gavin Chipper
Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:06 pm
Forum: Off-topic
Topic: Why don't you like basketball?
Replies: 66
Views: 1170

Re: Why don't you like basketball?

Mark Deeks wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:23 am
Responses hitherto have focused on watching basketball. But what about playing it? It's not very high scoring if you're not good.
But it's all connected. Enjoying watching a sport is likely to lead to wanting to play it.
by Gavin Chipper
Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:59 am
Forum: Countdown - General
Topic: Susie Dent's Two Words
Replies: 18
Views: 935

Re: Susie Dent's Two Words

What are the two words?
by Gavin Chipper
Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:58 am
Forum: Off-topic
Topic: Why don't you like basketball?
Replies: 66
Views: 1170

Re: Why don't you like basketball?

Why particularly if you like football? In your Facebook discussion, I think it was worded as if it was exclusively for people who liked football, so I feel I'm at least allowed to comment here. But I think most of what I'm about to say has been covered on Facebook. Basically, people like the sport(s...
by Gavin Chipper
Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:53 pm
Forum: Off-topic
Topic: How many of your Facebook friends are dead?
Replies: 26
Views: 1072

Re: How many of your Facebook friends are dead?

Are you going to do these threads, or are we answering in here?
by Gavin Chipper
Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:02 pm
Forum: Off-topic
Topic: How many of your Facebook friends are dead?
Replies: 26
Views: 1072

Re: How many of your Facebook friends are dead?

It's more that I didn't really want to see their names again. This mirrors my attitude towards death in general, as alluded to here - I understand the melodrama but I don't particularly want to see it. I'm a clean breaks guy. Sometimes I send them a message to ask how the after-life is for them. Th...
by Gavin Chipper
Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:08 pm
Forum: Off-topic
Topic: How many of your Facebook friends are dead?
Replies: 26
Views: 1072

Re: How many of your Facebook friends are dead?

Mark Deeks wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:10 pm
I've had two die and unfriended them both very soon afterwards.
What pricks for dying, eh?
by Gavin Chipper
Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:58 pm
Forum: Off-topic
Topic: How many of your Facebook friends are dead?
Replies: 26
Views: 1072

Re: How many of your Facebook friends are dead?

Mark Deeks wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:15 am
Gotta say, real return to form for C4C, this. Banter flying all over the show. Good job Gev, you content provider you.
It's a thread that inspires banter and light-hearted humour generally isn't it?
by Gavin Chipper
Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:48 pm
Forum: Off-topic
Topic: How many of your Facebook friends are dead?
Replies: 26
Views: 1072

Re: How many of your Facebook friends are dead?

Peter Mabey wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:49 pm
When one of my friends died his family kept his site up so that his friends could post in remembrance :)
One of my friends now has a remembrance page thing, but the other one is still just a normal page.
by Gavin Chipper
Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:47 pm
Forum: Off-topic
Topic: How many of your Facebook friends are dead?
Replies: 26
Views: 1072

Re: How many of your Facebook friends are dead?

Thomas Carey wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:35 pm
Also still have one (a countdowner) coming up in the suggested friends bit because another countdowner suggested it and neither of us accepted. Most of you can probably tell who these two are.
No idea. So you might as well tell us.
by Gavin Chipper
Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:31 pm
Forum: Off-topic
Topic: How many of your Facebook friends are dead?
Replies: 26
Views: 1072

How many of your Facebook friends are dead?

I know this is morbid, but what is c4c for? This isn't Facebook! Looking ay my friends list, I believe that two of them have died. Well, two definitely have, but I don't think any others have. One was a manager where I used to work who was in her 60s (I don't know how she died, but she always seemed...
by Gavin Chipper
Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:15 pm
Forum: Off-topic
Topic: Politics in General
Replies: 397
Views: 39258

Re: Politics in General

This Labour anti-Semitism thing is getting a bit ridiculous. And in a way I do blame Jeremy Corbyn. He needs to come out and defend himself more aggressively. When people criticise Labour for not using the definition of anti-Semitism used by the "IHRA", he needs to come out and explicitly say it's b...
by Gavin Chipper
Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:12 pm
Forum: Games and Puzzles
Topic: Change one letter of a film title to make a funny one
Replies: 59
Views: 5064

Re: Change one letter of a film title to make a funny one

Fred Mumford wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:12 pm
Sad day for the Cut.
Decent.
by Gavin Chipper
Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:34 pm
Forum: Off-topic
Topic: C4C/apto/Countdown Dreams
Replies: 575
Views: 102969

Re: C4C/apto/Countdown Dreams

I had a couple last night I think actually. All a bit vague, but I seem to remember Moose winning a game at a CO-event to much applause and over-reaction, including Moose shouting out his own name.
by Gavin Chipper
Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:44 pm
Forum: Countdown - Spoilers
Topic: Spoilers for 30th July 2018
Replies: 12
Views: 663

Re: Spoilers for 30th July 2018

I quite enjoyed the comment, and felt she could have added "you stupid fools" on the end.
by Gavin Chipper
Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:05 pm
Forum: Countdown - General
Topic: Looking to sell my laptop prize
Replies: 11
Views: 1044

Re: Looking to sell my laptop prize

Because all of my devices are Windows, and Windows and Apple don't always play together so well when you try to make them talk (At least, they don't when I try and make them - it's probably easy for someone who's less technophobic). Additionally I already have a "serious" laptop for my job, so if I...
by Gavin Chipper
Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:04 pm
Forum: Countdown - Events
Topic: .co.mk4 - Countdown in Milton Keynes - 4th August 2018
Replies: 13
Views: 9617

Re: .co.mk4 - Countdown in Milton Keynes - 4th August 2018

Who else is considering doing a parkrun before this? Because I've done the Milton Keynes one a couple of times before, I thought I might try the Linford Wood parkrun instead this time. They're quite close together.
by Gavin Chipper
Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:08 pm
Forum: Countdown - Spoilers
Topic: Spoilers for 27th July 2018.
Replies: 14
Views: 795

Re: Spoilers for 27th July 2018.

Owen Carroll wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:21 pm
Does anyone know when any of those people are appearing that's mentioned on the countdown wiki to be in this series? Apart from Elliott?
When is Elliott appearing?
by Gavin Chipper
Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:25 pm
Forum: Off-topic
Topic: C4C/apto/Countdown Dreams
Replies: 575
Views: 102969

Re: C4C/apto/Countdown Dreams

At one point Jeff either got ANDOSOL as a 6, or dream me found ANDOSOL in the selection but for whatever reason the selection was thrown over to the audience where Nick Hewer noticed Bra off his seat with his hand up when Nick asked if anyone could do better. After giving him a very elaborate intro...
by Gavin Chipper
Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:17 am
Forum: Countdown - Spoilers
Topic: Spoilers for 27th July 2018.
Replies: 14
Views: 795

Re: Spoilers for 27th July 2018.

I think Bob had actually improved since his first game, and his numbers are better than I first thought. So yes, he could be an octochamp. I didn't actually think Lewis was really octo potential, but anyone who can win one game could potentially win eight, by just stringing them together and not get...
by Gavin Chipper
Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:39 am
Forum: Countdown - Spoilers
Topic: Spoilers for Thursday 26th July 2018 (Series 79, Prelim 22)
Replies: 4
Views: 591

Re: Spoilers for Thursday 26th July 2018 (Series 79, Prelim 22)

Annoying that ATAVISM is a thing, you can be ATAVISTIC, but there's no ATAVIST. I wondered about that too. Re the 553 numbers game, where Rachel says "You might kick yourselves . . ." I think it would be good if sometimes she would say something like "After you've made 525 you're looking for anothe...
by Gavin Chipper
Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:11 pm
Forum: Countdown - Spoilers
Topic: Spoilers for Wednesday 25th July 2018 (Series 79, Prelim 21)
Replies: 15
Views: 804

Re: Spoilers for Wednesday 25th July 2018 (Series 79, Prelim 21)

Great game-just the luck of the draw for Brian in the end- as he is a better player than present #1 seed Lewis imo. It was a great game with one of the most high quality I have seen in a prelim in the past few months. If I was a betting man, I would not put it past Bob making it to 8 as he had some...
by Gavin Chipper
Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:04 pm
Forum: Off-topic
Topic: What Degrees do you have
Replies: 25
Views: 2437

Re: What Degrees do you have

Martin Hurst wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:32 am
Dropped out of uni after 2 years, which probably subconsciously contributes to why I (possibly harshly) largely disregard academic qualifications when I recruit people.
What do you recruit for?
by Gavin Chipper
Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:54 pm
Forum: Off-topic
Topic: C4C/apto/Countdown Dreams
Replies: 575
Views: 102969

Re: C4C/apto/Countdown Dreams

*....?
by Gavin Chipper
Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:32 pm
Forum: Countdown - Spoilers
Topic: Spoilers for Wednesday 18th July 2018 (Series 79, Prelim 16)
Replies: 30
Views: 1795

Re: Spoilers for Wednesday 18th July 2018 (Series 79, Prelim 16)

It'd be interesting to see the verdict of the actual producer on this. I'm happy to concede if wrong but there are certain rules that they apply eg the restaurant rule. If a cheese is more goaty than the other than how do you describe it? GOATIER, GOATIEST seem logical. The basic rule is that singl...
by Gavin Chipper
Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:13 pm
Forum: Countdown - Spoilers
Topic: Spoilers for Wednesday 18th July 2018 (Series 79, Prelim 16)
Replies: 30
Views: 1795

Re: Spoilers for Wednesday 18th July 2018 (Series 79, Prelim 16)

It'd be interesting to see the verdict of the actual producer on this. I'm happy to concede if wrong but there are certain rules that they apply eg the restaurant rule. If a cheese is more goaty than the other than how do you describe it? GOATIER, GOATIEST seem logical. The basic rule is that singl...
by Gavin Chipper
Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:46 am
Forum: Countdown - Spoilers
Topic: Spoilers for Wednesday 18th July 2018 (Series 79, Prelim 16)
Replies: 30
Views: 1795

Re: Spoilers for Wednesday 18th July 2018 (Series 79, Prelim 16)

Goatier - a comparative adjective, so would have been valid if declared. Sorry. Comparative adjective needs to be specified in the OED to be valid. It is not. Therefore invalid It's not specified in the free online dictionary, but it might be in the paid-for version. It's valid on Apterous so it pr...
by Gavin Chipper
Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:09 pm
Forum: Games and Puzzles
Topic: Change one letter of a film title to make a funny one
Replies: 59
Views: 5064

Re: Change one letter of a film title to make a funny one

David Williams wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:34 pm
One of the more influential among us used to be known as Womb Raider.
I remember it well.
by Gavin Chipper
Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:33 am
Forum: Games and Puzzles
Topic: Change one word in a film title to make a different film
Replies: 7
Views: 804

Re: Change one word in a film title to make a different film

Marc Meakin wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:51 pm
Joseph and his Amazing Technicolour Yawn
Sounds like you got bored with this idea as soon as you started it.
by Gavin Chipper
Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:32 am
Forum: Countdown - Spoilers
Topic: Spoilers for Thursday 19th July 2018 (Series 79, Prelim 17)
Replies: 9
Views: 805

Re: Spoilers for Thursday 19th July 2018 (Series 79, Prelim 17)

The challenger seemed quite good for most of the game, but fell apart towards the end. I think it was her habit of asking for four small and two large rather than the other way round that caused everyone in the studio to turn against her, which ultimately put her off her game. What?? I never notice...
by Gavin Chipper
Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:32 pm
Forum: Games and Puzzles
Topic: Change one letter of a film title to make a funny one
Replies: 59
Views: 5064

Re: Change one letter of a film title to make a funny one

Marc Meakin wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:48 pm
Goodness me I posted this weeks ago and thought it was another turkey.
I mean, it was a shit idea but people ran with it so you saved face.
by Gavin Chipper
Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:21 pm
Forum: Countdown - General
Topic: C of C Draw......
Replies: 55
Views: 3621

Re: C of C Draw......

Personally, I think there are some individuals who are more worthy than the one's noted on the draw. Nevertheless, the past few series in the criteria for this CoC have been of a high standard imo, so there were always going to be some who would not be able to participate. By having some Series Win...
by Gavin Chipper
Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:12 pm
Forum: Countdown - Spoilers
Topic: Spoilers for Thursday 19th July 2018 (Series 79, Prelim 17)
Replies: 9
Views: 805

Re: Spoilers for Thursday 19th July 2018 (Series 79, Prelim 17)

The challenger seemed quite good for most of the game, but fell apart towards the end. I think it was her habit of asking for four small and two large rather than the other way round that caused everyone in the studio to turn against her, which ultimately put her off her game.
by Gavin Chipper
Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:10 pm
Forum: Countdown - Spoilers
Topic: Spoilers for Wednesday 18th July 2018 (Series 79, Prelim 16)
Replies: 30
Views: 1795

Re: Spoilers for Wednesday 18th July 2018 (Series 79, Prelim 16)

Peter Mabey wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:31 pm
Dunno why 114 was tricky : it's obviously 19x6 , so 25+3-9 x 7-1 with time to spare :)
I did that too. Both the method and the time.
by Gavin Chipper
Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:09 pm
Forum: Countdown - General
Topic: COC timeline
Replies: 57
Views: 7882

Re: COC timeline

Is the transmission scheduled to start on 7 January? Doesn't say. Just says January 2019 I wouldn't put it past it being delayed until 14 January, due to a certain World Darts Championship that Channel 4 show.... :roll: :roll: :roll: Is it confirmed that C4 still has that in 2019? I thought Series ...
by Gavin Chipper
Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:06 pm
Forum: Countdown - General
Topic: C of C Draw......
Replies: 55
Views: 3621

Re: C of C Draw......

The arguments about not having a random draw could end up with some people deliberately throwing their last prelim in their original series if they want to play the long game. I don't follow Rhys - can you explain? Taking cue from Graeme, I'm going to a logical extreme here, but if you imagine the ...
by Gavin Chipper
Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:56 am
Forum: Countdown - General
Topic: C of C Draw......
Replies: 55
Views: 3621

Re: C of C Draw......

David Williams wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:23 am
There was a time when Series winners were kept apart in the first round.
There is an argument to be made for it not being entirely random.
by Gavin Chipper
Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:34 pm
Forum: Countdown - General
Topic: C of C Draw......
Replies: 55
Views: 3621

Re: C of C Draw......

Cool. So in terms of series we have: 73: Jonathan Wynn, Thomas Carey, Matthew Tassier (3) 74: Paul Erdunast, Ann Dibben (2) 75: Martin Hurst, Andrew Macleod (2) 76: Stephen Read (1) 77: Tom Chafer-Cook, Bradley Horrocks, John Cowen, Noel McIlvenny (4) 78: Zarte Siempre, Philip Aston, Dougie Mackay, ...
by Gavin Chipper
Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:23 pm
Forum: Countdown - General
Topic: Octoruns
Replies: 9
Views: 865

Re: Octoruns

Are you trying to point out in a subtle way that yours was hard? Or do you disagree with what I said about James and Elliott, what I consider a hard octoruns is how many crucial conundrums you've had in a run. And you only had one but don't get me wrong, you did very well in that game and the whole...
by Gavin Chipper
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:33 pm
Forum: Countdown - General
Topic: Octoruns
Replies: 9
Views: 865

Re: Octoruns

*cough* not quite Mark's, but Are you trying to point out in a subtle way that yours was hard? Or do you disagree with what I said about James and Elliott, what I consider a hard octoruns is how many crucial conundrums you've had in a run. And you only had one but don't get me wrong, you did very w...
by Gavin Chipper
Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:33 pm
Forum: Countdown - General
Topic: Countdown Lookalikes?
Replies: 214
Views: 45202

Re: Countdown Lookalikes?

Image
Image

Oliver Garner and Croatian footballer Luka Modrić.
by Gavin Chipper
Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:08 pm
Forum: Off-topic
Topic: Deathwatch 2018
Replies: 95
Views: 16608

Re: Deathwatch 2018

by Gavin Chipper
Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:26 pm
Forum: Off-topic
Topic: C4C/apto/Countdown Dreams
Replies: 575
Views: 102969

Re: C4C/apto/Countdown Dreams

Particularly disturbing one last night. In my dream, the world was being overrun with robotic replicants, and me and my family are holed up in my late grandmother's conservatory being menaced by a robotic replica of James Robinson. We eventually concoct a way to defeat RoboRobbo by hitting him with...
by Gavin Chipper
Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:47 pm
Forum: Countdown - General
Topic: Welcome! - Post here first
Replies: 1893
Views: 139042

Re: Welcome! - Post here first

Elliott Mellor wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:45 pm
Owen Carroll wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:38 pm
Again, not the place to post it but if I get onto the show, unless I'm coming across one of your family or friends or people who've been on this site longer than me, can I please ask you's to root for me?
:lol:
Harsh. I's will root for you, Owen.
by Gavin Chipper
Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:41 pm
Forum: Off-topic
Topic: Questions you've always wanted answered
Replies: 502
Views: 59426

Re: Questions you've always wanted answered

Mark Deeks wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:01 pm
RELATED - do vicars/priests/chaplains etc take singing lessons as a part of the gig?
They tend to join 80s bands along with people like Jimmy Somerville before embarking on a church-based career. This stands them in good stead.